Transphobia or truths?

[TwittleBee]

Hi there!

First, apologise if this has been really over discussed already.

I'm pretty new to the whole self ID and trans issues and pretty shocked to discover I'm probably classed as a "Radical" feminist.

How comes it's seen as transphobia when women talk about women's rights or sex or gender?

Perhaps I'm being naive, but I haven't seen anything i would class as transphobic on MN yet? Just a lot of feminists discussing their concerns for women and girls' rights?

Looking for answers so I can see both points of view but also so I can attempt to understand what is going on here.

Thanks x

Hey Ereshkigal I totally get the concerns with self ID - taking existing rights away from trans women is a whole different matter!

What existing rights would they be?

taking existing rights away from trans women is a whole different matter!

What rights would TIM's lose?

The whole concept of being transgender should be completely disregarded to protect your feelings?

Ah. I see. So the whole concept of women's privacy should be completely disregarded to protect your feelings. I get it. Some people's feelings matter more than others. Whose please?

Who is talking about disregarding the concept of transgender?

You've mentioned compromise - by which you actually mean women shutting up and rolling over, funnily enough no other compromise is ever mentioned - but a basic compromise is the provision of gender neutral spaces with continued male/female only provision. The question is NOT about 'removing rights' ffs, it's not about wanting to do down transgenderism in any way, it's about preserving privacy and dignity for biological women TOO. The one does not have to be sacrificed for the other to exist.

Because as you know, trans identified males can already claim Equality Act protections for their "gender reassignment" characteristic. What needs to happen for women is that those exemptions need to be used.

You might not want to get changed in front of someone with a different skin colour to you.

This is pure racism and it's disgusting. To use POC, no WOC to make your point is the absolute lowest of the low. You should be ashamed.

Apologies if I misunderstood but anyone born male inferred trans women with a GRC who have transitioned. Therefore banning them from female spaces.

I thought the majority on here were happy to accept these people as women?

Why would I accept a person born male with a penis as a woman? I don't and I never will. They are men, pure and simple.

Ah, misunderstanding identified. I am talking about self ID only. Certainly not removing anything whatever from legal women with GRCs.

I thought the majority on here were happy to accept these people as women?

No. Happy that they have legal protections where reasonable, as they have a medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria which is a serious psychological condition. But they're still not women.

I agree, Spontaneous , and many transsexual MNetters holding GRCs have posted many times to say this, however a GRC counts them legally as women.

Except for certain GRA/EA exemptions.

Tinkletinklelittlebat Indeed. It was a piece of legislation that knocked back hard won rights for women. I would still call out a TIM in a woman's space if I saw one. I will not accept a man in a women's spaces - ever!

Except for certain GRA/EA exemptions. Not for much longer if self ID goes ahead.

I think they will try to get self ID through first by telling people it's not important, nothing to see here etc etc. Then there will be no real basis for the exemptions as males in female spaces and "changing gender" will be normalised. So either no one ever will use them (as is pretty much the case now) or they will be removed.

I think they will lobby for that removal though because that would send a nice fuck you TERFs victory message.

Ereshkigal I tend to go along with that although I continue to hope there will still be exceptions. The problems will start with the court cases, then lets see if the GB public thinks all is well and women and girls are safe. How many will be attacked, beaten, robbed, raped, murdered in what were safe spaces for women for this to be finally knocked on the head? My opinion - how ever many are effected. By then it will be so ingrained women will never be safe again. I'm terrified for women and girls now.

Exemptions exceptions

how can you not see the transphobia here? This is a woman, a legal woman.

"Corporations are people, my friends", because the law says so.
"The law in its majestic equality..."

The law is an ass

Hard cases make bad law

I think it quite clear that the increased danger to women and girls is a price that many people are willing for us to pay and if we do not like it we can stay home.
That is misogyny. Plain and simple.

thebewilderness Quite. Put up and shut up get back in the kitchen

at the moment they are legally allowed into sex segregated spaces ...

Not all sex segregated spaces, no.