Transphobia or truths?

[TwittleBee]

Hi there!

First, apologise if this has been really over discussed already.

I'm pretty new to the whole self ID and trans issues and pretty shocked to discover I'm probably classed as a "Radical" feminist.

How comes it's seen as transphobia when women talk about women's rights or sex or gender?

Perhaps I'm being naive, but I haven't seen anything i would class as transphobic on MN yet? Just a lot of feminists discussing their concerns for women and girls' rights?

Looking for answers so I can see both points of view but also so I can attempt to understand what is going on here.

Thanks x

I got a weird random unsolicited PM from MadBad a while back. Didn't answer.

Same. I wrote it off as a drunken cock-up, given it had absolutely no content that related to anything I had said.

You know who convinced me that some transwomen were a threat? Transwomen! That whole making rape and death threats thing kind of makes an impression, especially when it's followed up with an actual murder committed by someone who used to go to Camp Trans at Michfest.

It's very difficult to have a conversation when people are saying the lines that "it's just an administrative change for birth certificates"

Believing that line of bs is how we got into this sad state of affairs where little girls are being told they are bigots if they object to men and boys showering with them.

I think that transgender identified males sharing notes from their boner on the twitter has done more damage to the myth that it is just an administrative change than any of us here could ever do.

Their own words discredit their 'harmlessness', far more than we ever could.

Wow that's just horrible!

Of course women should not live in fear. But there is no reason why any woman should be afraid of transwomen. The people responsible for that fear are those who are setting up false bogeymen

If there is no reason to fear males, why do trans identifying males need to be in the woman's toilets? What in 'transitioning' makes a man stop behaving like a man and start behaving like a woman and when does this occur?

But there is no reason why any woman should be afraid of transwomen.

On the contrary, I believe that AGP males present a higher risk to women and girls than the average man. Fragile identities requiring constant external validation + narcissistic rage = heightened risk for women and girls.

Maybe those who id as trans and are upset that people think they have might be pervs should spend their time arguing with the trans id'ing pervs about it and LEAVE WOMEN ALONE.

Maybe those who id as trans and are upset that people think they have might be pervs should spend their time arguing with the trans id'ing pervs about it and LEAVE WOMEN ALONE

Absolutely. But it is easier to argue with women, they can threaten us. Can't see that going down too well with men. I am well and truly fed up now, it is relentless. And they think threats against women are funny, fucking hilarious mate, men have been doing it to women since the dawn of time.

On the contrary, I believe that AGP males present a higher risk to women and girls than the average man. Fragile identities requiring constant external validation + narcissistic rage = heightened risk for women and girls.

I agree. This is now becoming unspeakable. Cross dressing sexual fetishism also has a strong correlation with sexual crimes.

I am slightly miffed by the claim that women are under no threat from TIM’s in female bathrooms. Recently I went into a female bathroom and something registered in my peripheral vision. I stopped and looked noticing it was an obvious TIM. I must have caught the person’s attention as they turned and started swearing at me. I ran and locked myself in a stall and waited.

I did not feel safe and I am now wondering if looking at a TIM is considered transphobia.

1st rule of transactivism. Everything is transphobic.

Look at me
Look at me
Notice me, me me me ME

Did you just look at me, bitch?

Indeed!

The people responsible for that fear are those who are setting up false bogeymen

Oh give over.

I do not want to pee or do anything else in a bathroom with any random bloke strolling in. I don't care if they're gay, trans or Klingons, I don't care if they're utterly lovely. It isn't relevant. if they were born male I am not comfortable. My body, my feelings, my boundaries. These things matter. We don't decide that some people's feelings matter and other people's feelings are stupid depending on whether the group they belong to is currently in fashion: either feelings matter or they don't.

I do not want to have to change or undress anywhere random male born people can stroll in. Sexual abusers don't have the mark of bloody Caine on their foreheads, and I don't want to have to pause mid strip off and wonder if I'm safe or if I get to experience the next sexual assault in my history - the first few were bad enough thanks. Recently when I found myself faced with a gender neutral changing room where two blokes were starkers, I went and changed in a cupboard. Anyone telling me in that condescending way that 'I'll get used to it' needs support with basic empathy and social skills. I am furious that young girls are being pressured and trained to not have bodily privacy or to be allowed to show or admit to discomfort at having to change in front of someone who is a biological boy because his feelings about his identity matter more than theirs.

This is basic basic prioritising and valuing of male born over female born, it's exactly what women have been fighting against for centuries.

This change in law means I will have to stop using public toilets and changing rooms. It will drive me out of public spaces. I'll have less freedom and privacy than my grandmother had, this is not progressive, it's not even basically ethical. Be trans, be whatever you like, do what you want, be happy. But when you start redefining my identity, my reality, my language and my right to privacy, dignity and safety then the answer is NO. Other people have rights too.

The people responsible for that fear are those who are setting up false bogeymen
10th rule of misogyny: The worst thing about male violence is that it makes men look bad.
Am I repeating myself? I might be. 26 pages in we are being told "He's not hurting you; you're hurting him by saying he's hurting you."

I do not want to pee or do anything else in a bathroom with any random bloke strolling in. I don't care if they're gay, trans or Klingons, I don't care if they're utterly lovely. It isn't relevant. if they were born male I am not comfortable. My body, my feelings, my boundaries. These things matter. We don't decide that some people's feelings matter and other people's feelings are stupid depending on whether the group they belong to is currently in fashion: either feelings matter or they don't.

You might not want to get changed in front of someone with a different skin colour to you. Your choice, your feelings, your boundaries. You have to accept not all women feel the same, a lot are accepting and welcoming of trans women in female spaces and want their kids to grow up in a tolerant world not one full of fear.
As a liberal feminist on here my feelings are completely disregarded 'for my own good' but nobody can see the irony!

Its not acceptable to call people racists here.

How can anyone not understand that is racist in itself to posit the white woman as default and make faux comparisons with racism?

You might not want to get changed in front of someone with a different skin colour to you

Are you seriously equating standard feelings of privacy, dignity and personal consent with racial prejudice? There is sex segregation throughout the UK in situations of nudity and undress, there has been for decades, and no one is suggesting (or daring to) that sex segregation should be immediately eliminated. Now when women are having that sex segregation removed by stealth, you're calling me 'racist' for daring to say that no, I'm not ok with this? That suddenly not wanting to undress in front of a male bodied person is wrong and bad and silly? It's utterly irrational.

As a liberal feminist on here my feelings are completely disregarded

Since you're doing your best to blame and shame women into surrendering consent - and fighting against that in matters of consent no always trumps yes - you have no business calling yourself any kind of feminist. As for saying your feelings being disregarded - you're not exactly compassionate or listening to anyone else's feelings never mind taking them into account.

I follow a WOC on twitter who is utterly, utterly pissed off with the transactivists bringing race into it, and utilising racism as a weapon against women like this.

Happy to link, if you'd like to read?

Saying no to men is not just a hate crime now it is also racist?
Criminy!