Transphobia or truths?

[TwittleBee]

Hi there!

First, apologise if this has been really over discussed already.

I'm pretty new to the whole self ID and trans issues and pretty shocked to discover I'm probably classed as a "Radical" feminist.

How comes it's seen as transphobia when women talk about women's rights or sex or gender?

Perhaps I'm being naive, but I haven't seen anything i would class as transphobic on MN yet? Just a lot of feminists discussing their concerns for women and girls' rights?

Looking for answers so I can see both points of view but also so I can attempt to understand what is going on here.

Thanks x

Lacy hankies, what are they? I use Kleenex tissues.

Am I the only one who got PM from Luc that started:
I realise I am possibly the last person you want a PM from.

They keep saying they don't understand but the truth is that they do know. They just don't care.

I have gorgeous family fancy work hankies. Some well over 100 years old. I cannot imagine blowing my nose on one. They are effing works of art.

I got a weird random unsolicited PM from MadBad a while back. Didn't answer.

thebewilderness I didn't get one and quite frankly I don't want one. So it's not working in group chat, lets try divide and conquer. As old as time and will fail just like posting publicly did.

My gran had some lovely hankies, she did use them, she said tissues were common. Oo'er.

I can see how in a conversation between two TIMs the "who's more passable" thing might be relevant, but in terms of radfems or gender critical women more broadly? Not my circus, not my monkeys. And takes a laughable level of narcissism to assume that it would be.

No random PMs for me, thank god.

I half expected one from Rat, gloating they'd had my post deleted. Almost wish I'd said worse now, tbh If I'm going to be deleted for calling someone a "disgrace" - well, let's just say I could have been much more colourful - and have seen much more colourful on AIBU.

Blimey! I called Rat a disgrace too, my post is still up.

Might have used an F word. So unladylike, and obviously it tipped over into PA. Meh, I've said worse, and it be allowed to stand.

These are sensitive times

Rat - women are not weak and feeble for protecting their personal, physical and emotional boundaries, and their fears are not irrational. And that is the last thing I will ever say to you.

The illusion that women are unable to spot men as men, when they are wearing a dress and makeup and high heels, is ridiculous.

We see you.

Really, we do - we see you.

I do not think my lack of affinity to the issues natal woman face is the issue, I think it is a lack of understanding from many users on the likes of MN that is the problem for not seeing that there are clear parallels between the issues faced and that instead of dividing and shrinking away from trans issues, natal women should helping to protect us.

Nat this is what you said about women's role where trans identified males are concerned. What did you mean, if not what people took it to mean?

Stop deflecting from the points I'm making on one subject by saying that it is not the only subject to be covered - I know - and that has nothing whatsoever to do with what I've said on this one. It's "whataboutery"!!

No you stop deflecting. I made a point, that feeling physically vulnerable does not rest solely on how statistically likely you are to be raped/assaulted. It's a perception. And having random males there who don't give a fuck that they're violating your boundaries isn't going to help that.

I can see how in a conversation between two TIMs the "who's more passable" thing might be relevant, but in terms of radfems or gender critical women more broadly? Not my circus, not my monkeys. And takes a laughable level of narcissism to assume that it would be.

This this this. if you're an obvious man, people will comment if you take up women's space. The end.

Here is what they say they meant when they said we should protect them:
I just realised that I meant to say I did not mean to imply women should shield trans women as a responsibility and obligation, in that thread I meant it as a case of women have had the rough ride a lot longer than trans people and you have the experience to help trans women (the non crazies). As in ‘if help was asked for.. would you help us?’

We keep saying no, but this person does not hear us because that is not the answer they want.

Posted by the bluebottle, buzzing away and repetitively banging his head against the glass: "natal women should helping to protect us"

Oh FGS, he expects women to act as human shields. Despicable. And a very serious reason for retaining sex-segregated spaces and not letting men who say such things into women's sex-segregated spaces.

Coyoacan
some women are rightly still scared; others don't want to be treated as if they should be scared (which might in turn make them feel scared) because women shouldn't have to live in fear!

I hate the idea that traumatised women and Muslims are being thrown under the bus to appease this small number of people.

Of course women should not live in fear. But there is no reason why any woman should be afraid of transwomen. The people responsible for that fear are those who are setting up false bogeymen
— the ones who are trying so hard to convince you that transwomen are a threat
— the ones who are trying so hard to convince you that your rights and protections are being removed by a simple administrative change that will have no effect on anyone other than a few thousand transsexuals.

the ones who are trying so hard to convince you that your rights and protections are being removed by a simple administrative change that will have no effect on anyone other than a few thousand transsexuals.

Not true. And we all know this.

Btw what's a transsexual? I thought it was someone who had had genital gender reassignment surgery?

the ones who are trying so hard to convince you that your rights and protections are being removed by a simple administrative change that will have no effect on anyone other than a few thousand transsexuals.

Stop lying to us. Please.

We know this isn't true. Self ID legislation will prevent women from challenging any male in female spaces.

the ones who are trying so hard to convince you that transwomen are a threat

Stop gaslighting! There are scores of TWs that have attacked/killed women. Like Dana Rivers. I bring that one up, because trans before the murders. But you would still support 'trans after murders' anyway, and their right to be moved to a female estate.

Anyone who says self ID is irrelevant to women is being disingenuous. Self ID will normalise males in female spaces and further erode the idea of sex protections in law, which has already been damaged by the legal fiction of the GRA. The EA already allows this by the back door and puts the onus on the service provider to decide whose rights they want to safeguard and which carries more risk to them in terms of publicity and litigation. To retain rights for women we need to block self ID here and also strengthen women's sex based protections so that there is a universal equality duty to consider women's needs (as a disadvantaged group) at least as much as transgender people's, where there is a conflict.

That ship has sailed on the 'fluffy little harmless transwoman' thing.

It's very difficult to have a conversation when people are saying the lines that "it's just an administrative change for birth certificates"

We've heard it already - it's not true. The repercussions on women are massive - it means any man can self identify as a woman - and women can't question this. They're then legally women. No gatekeeping, no safeguarding.

It means I can't refuse a man-identifying-as-a-woman performing my smear test.

Stop trying to make out it's just administrative.