Transphobia or truths?

[TwittleBee]

Hi there!

First, apologise if this has been really over discussed already.

I'm pretty new to the whole self ID and trans issues and pretty shocked to discover I'm probably classed as a "Radical" feminist.

How comes it's seen as transphobia when women talk about women's rights or sex or gender?

Perhaps I'm being naive, but I haven't seen anything i would class as transphobic on MN yet? Just a lot of feminists discussing their concerns for women and girls' rights?

Looking for answers so I can see both points of view but also so I can attempt to understand what is going on here.

Thanks x

If women moved out of a space TIM's wouldn't use it either. Nothing validating about an empty space.
I think you are mistaken about this. If it says ladies they will use it even if they have driven every women out. They will them turn to men for validation of their femininity. I think this because of the surprisingly larger number of transgender identified males who appear to hate women and want to erase us.

I don't want to be in a public space with male people who use the language of domestic abusers and MRA rhetoric such as what about the women who rape, let alone private, sex-segregated space.

No is a complete sentence.

No.

And once again, for the hard of hearing: no.

Picassospaintbrush

Oh Em Gee That was lovely!

Maybe we could try other languages? Nein. Nyet. Work with me here.

I think most men these days would cope with a man presenting as anything, jesus they probably all had Bowie albums [or their dads did]...and most don't want men in with the ladies for all sorts of reasons; safety only being one. Can you imagine the terror of someone who is in a controlling relationship being accused of meeting up with men in the ladies? It literally is a place where women can just be away from men.

Rant away, it's good for the soul, as is

You shouldn't be using either the women's or the disabled spaces nat, you should be campaigning for your own spaces, just as women and disabled people did.

“If transvestite or transsexual males are oppressed, then let them band together and organize against that oppression, instead of leeching off women who have spent entire lives as women in women’s bodies. ”

Robin Morgan said that in Nineteen Seventy Nine

It's not like the 'trans community' haven't had time to get their shit together. They've all just been too busy getting laws passed 'quietly' that fuck over women and girls in favour of validation for whatever a man decides he is.

It's up to male people, however they identify, to sort out male violence. This is not our job. If women could sort out male violence do you not think we'd have done it by now?

Awww Picasso, I empathise with your rant.

Correction - Robin Morgan said that in 1973, not 1979. We've been having this fucking shitty debate for at least 45 years.

And the answer is still no.

Cuckoos don't build nests. They use other birds nests.

thebewilderness Throwing the other baby birds out of said nest in the process.

I was just saying to friends the other day, the singer of a band I've loved since the 90s has always worn skirts on and off. Doesn't call himself a woman or insist on being treated any particular way, he's just a guy who's not very gender conforming. I'm fine with that. I think most feminists are fine with that (though some young libfems might be a bit confused). Everyone should wear what they like provided that the private bits are covered in public. Most radical feminists are very much in favor of gender non-conformity, because gender is harmful nonsense designed to establish a social heirarchy. What we're not in favor of is men refusing to respect our boundaries (and we're not too fond of women insisting that us having them is unfair/weak/uncool either).

Have whatever personality you have, express yourself as you please, but keep your be-penised self out of spaces where women and girls will be removing some or all of our clothing. You are not the exception to this rule just because you think you should be.

They use other birds nests.
Very apt.

You are not the exception to this rule just because you think you should be.

You are not the exception to this rule just because you think you should be.

I'm gonna remember this.

I'm looking forward to seeing what combination of whinging and gaslighting tomorrow brings in these comments.

seems a good time to link to petition

"Consult with women on proposals to enshrine 'gender identity' in law
The government proposes to amend the law to allow people to self-identify as men or women, and to stop allowing organisations in sensitive situations to exclude people of the opposite birth sex. We call for women to be consulted on how to protect women and girls' rights, safety, privacy and dignity.
petition.parliament.uk/petitions/214118

R0wantrees you are always on the case. Gratitude here for it :)

some women are rightly still scared; others don't want to be treated as if they should be scared (which might in turn make them feel scared) because women shouldn't have to live in fear!

I have been using segregated facilities for well over sixty years and am one of that fortunate group of women who has not be raped and am not scared. Certainly the fact that a facility is for woman only never has made me feel scared, oddly enough.

I hate the idea that traumatised women and Muslims are being thrown under the bus to appease this small number of people.