Transphobia or truths?

[TwittleBee]

Hi there!

First, apologise if this has been really over discussed already.

I'm pretty new to the whole self ID and trans issues and pretty shocked to discover I'm probably classed as a "Radical" feminist.

How comes it's seen as transphobia when women talk about women's rights or sex or gender?

Perhaps I'm being naive, but I haven't seen anything i would class as transphobic on MN yet? Just a lot of feminists discussing their concerns for women and girls' rights?

Looking for answers so I can see both points of view but also so I can attempt to understand what is going on here.

Thanks x

The "you're being unfair to TIMs who don't pass" thing is really grating. No, if you do not look like a woman then people will most likely not perceive you as a woman. Blame the genetics you got from your parents, mother nature, the universe, whatever, but don't blame women for having working eyeballs.

What you are basically endorsing is passing privilege. The lucky few trans people who completely and undetectably pass can be in the women’s

No, we can tell. No men should be in the women's toilets, end of. I actually asked how a 14 year old girl can tell the difference between a man who is a threat znd one who isn't. The truth is, they cannot.

And by 14 they will already have learned that the chances of an unknown male person being a threat are very definitely not zero.

At least you utilised paragraphs spontaneous so not much of a wall.

I don't think it is any different from any other misogynists posting on feminists sites.
For some it is a neener neener you can't stop me male dominance display and for others it is a mansplaining style of male dominance display.
If men are here it is proof that this is not a female or a feminist space.

All All All Your Base Are Belong To Us!

JoanSummers They get short shrift from me, I'm too old for all their games and call out the crap.

ToeToToe I made sure they were clear as I hate wall to wall babble, lol.

Is validation the secret code word for a three-letter acronym? Asking for a friend.

thebewilderness Absolutely. Invade the space because we can. What they don't realise sometimes is, just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.

LangCleg Pea soup brain, which acronym? has major brain fog, just because

Gosh, am I womaning wrong again by being a person rather than a parking meter?

@HerFemaleness @ToeToToe - apologies, the reason I used the word privilege was to try and demonstrate that I recognise I am accepted in the facility based on my behaviour (I have read other users saying as much on MN and it’s what women have said when I have discussed it with them offline - especially when I first transitioned and they were alarmed that I WASNT using the women’s, but was using the disabled instead) and if at any point it is deemed inappropriate that privilege can be revoked. As in privilege not a right. I hope you can see the earnest intent with this clarification?

@AngryAttackKittens - I was trying to say that instead of sacrificing either young boys or girls, we should as adults be safeguarding children from people that have bad intent, not teaching them to be suspicious of trans people.

But you are right, this going in circles. I don’t want to enrage anyone, I simply wanted discussion and to give my opinions. Though I get the impression you’re all bored of trans people asking the same questions.

@thebewilderness - if you are referring to a post in the Parkrun thread then all I can do is try to assure you that it was not my intention to imply women should shield trans women.

Stepping back now.

I am now brain uncabbaged and know the acronym blushes furiously

I think both of that poster's comments about my body should stand for the record.
Good for you Pencils, I agree. Let everyone see. I am also another that skips over their posts, and will not engage. Cutting off the narcissistic supply.

You literally said that women should shield transwomen, Nat. There was no other possible interpretation.

NatLuc I can't say I've ever seen it written as privilege, it was an honour system until TIM's and TRA's killed that.

if you are referring to a post in the Parkrun thread then all I can do is try to assure you that it was not my intention to imply women should shield trans women.
You said it here in this thread quite plainly in the statement I quoted.

You refuse to take no for an answer. It is my position that people who refuse to take no for an answer are not safe to be around.

People on twitter are supporting transboys going in with the Girl Guides:

"Safe guard them from what? Like i say it the girl guides- well supervised etc"

This whole movement is a massive backlash against women and girl's personal, physical and emotional boundaries - because basically, males don't want us to have any.

Though I get the impression you’re all bored of trans people asking the same questions.

The question i have is - why is the threat of men in men's toilets a problem, but the threat of men in women's toilets absolutely fine and dandy?

Also in the current climate, what about the poor natal individuals who have been harassed out of the changing rooms or loos by the gender police?

The 'natal' word, when referring to actual women, is also offensive. We are women, pure and simple, and the default. The 'natal' word pre-dates that c-word, those two words are interchangeable, and therefore, equally offensive.

I think it is because we all agree that men are a threat but some men want to be excepted from the policy that acknowledges this because they are transgender or nice guys or not as bad as those other guys.
One of those.

Also, in what way does allowing adult males access to women's spaces improve the safeguarding of children? It is definitely the case that some adult males, and sadly some teenage boys too, are a threat to the safety of little boys. Allowing adult males and teenage boys to access little girls too is not an improvement in safeguarding, it's going "Oh hey we already have a problem here, why not make it worse?"

The question i have is - why is the threat of men in men's toilets a problem, but the threat of men in women's toilets absolutely fine and dandy?

Excellent question TERFragette. Self ID will effectively make all women's toilets sex-neutral anyway, so the men from whom trans are hiding from will be in the women's toilets. So for them to keep arguing that TW 'need' to be in the women's toilets "for safety" is not something that can be upheld if self ID comes in.

Of course, "for safety" was never really the reason. Validation was the reason.

Of course, "for safety" was never really the reason. Validation was the reason.

This, this and this a gazillion times. If women moved out of a space TIM's wouldn't use it either. Nothing validating about an empty space.