Why did the whole tone on trans issues change here?

[Magpiesarehuge]

Was reading the Dittany thread and made me interested in how trans issues were viewed and discussed quite a few years ago. I did dn advdnced search from 2010 to 2015 and the threads way back were completely differently than today. Nearly every voice totally accepting and supportive of transwomen are women and even “a TW with a penis is a lesbian of course if they are attracted to women”

I’ve totally changed my views in the passed 3 or 4 yrs but just strange to see what seems to be a complete about turn. I wonder if the hugely pro trans posters then- still ferl the same now. It’s a bit more understandable why some claims of mumsnet being infiltrated and taken over are made.

Like AF said
And then along came the likes of that bloke with a beard, still got his dick and demanding we all deny actual biology
Fuck that, said I

^ this

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/2310994-Cisgender-Lesbians-Trans-Women

No problem at all - I'm really enjoying reading back through really old thread titles, even the ones I'm not clicking

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/2082153-TERF

What should we call women rather than "guys" to avoid misgendering.
Someone suggested "folks".....
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/2336182-Does-it-matter-that-women-get-misgendered

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/2327140-I-cant-get-my-head-around-the-phrase-Transwomen-are-women

I have discovered that I was peaked and posting about it from at least early 2015, if not earlier.

I hadn't realised Dittany had withdrawn all her posts. That is a tragedy - she wrote so well on the trans issue.

I remember one thread (must have been about 2011) when a new poster joined to tackle dittany - on a thread that ran to 1000 posts. New poster started off saying they were going to report MN to Stonewall - then threatened to call the police for hate speech. So this police calling thing is not a new thing.

Unfortunately for the TAs, there are now lots more people talking about this - it's no longer confined to a small group of radfems. (Hence why middle class mothers-of-four from comfortable homes around Wiltshire are now being interviewed by police).

@BeyondParody Thanks for all the threads, I've been collating old mumsnet threads as a beginner guide to TG debate

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3246322-A-Beginners-Guide-to-the-Transgender-Debate-A-Signpost-to-Useful-Mumsnet-Threads?watched=1&msgid=77791947#77791947

I found my peak trans post!

Mid 2012. There's a post where I got it then several posts I'm still proud of today.

The tone changed as women realised what was going on.

Thank you for the links, BeyondParody

sontaran Thank you i was worried i was think it outside the box a little bit to much! Glad to know someone else thought about it to

Just seen an old thread with Ladyofthemanor, Fabbychick, Beesimo, Bupcakes - Bupcskes and LOTM are having a mahoosive bitchfight - Insults such as shopping at Dottie Ps and New Look are being dished out 😱- ah glory days.

I was very supportive of transpeople until the likes of pregnant person, female penis, chest feeding, cotton ceiling, all women shortlists, women's officer etc

I still am supportive of the rights and needs of transpeople, but I won't sacrifice women's rights and needs in the process

Personally I don't think so Greymisty. From my perspective I feel trans and Brexit are also similar in that we have a million other important things that need to be done but everything has to be pushed to one side to deal with them.

Equally from me no disrespect to moderate Leavers.

Anyway, don't mean to derail.

AIBU thread from 2014
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2046973-Question-about-gender-change

I’ve always supported trans people I’ve known, none of whom would dream of entering women’s sport or telling anyone to suck their dick! but it’s only through mn that I’ve been shown the horrible TRA side of trans 😢

Another AIBU thread from 2014
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2052993-To-be-struggling-with-DSs-sexuality-new-friends-and-expectations-of-open-mindedness

Quick placemark - need to double check oven temp for lemon drizzle.

I first posted on the trans threads in 2012 and it was pretty hostile to GC views back then. A poster told me I didn't deserve my womanhood and they hoped my tits would fall off and my fanny shrivel - charming. Most people though were of the view trans women were quiet tortured souls trying to live a peaceful life (Haley off Corrie) and too dysphoric to push into places where women wanted to be safe or that women should budge up to bring them in because there are so few of them.

I think the change in tone happened because people started to see in real life that what people like Dittany predicted would happen to women's spaces and rights actually started to happen. Most people peak trans based on something happening in real life and make sense of it based on GC views.

I remember distinctly a thread on here where a young lesbian was looking for advice. She’d met another woman, who it turned out was pre op trans TIM. As a result, she didn’t want to get intimate with her new friend.

She was advised that she was being a bigot, and that she really should view this person as a woman, and have sex with her. The pro voices were very insistent and put down any nay-sayers.

The young woman eventually decided that she would become celibate until she’d decided to accept transwomen as fully female.

I can’t remember her username but I often think of her.

I thought it "never happened" that lesbians were pressurised into sex with be-penised transwomen? Except it does - Laurie Penny was on about it on twitter just the other day.

I definitely remember a thread a woman who had men a very good looking man in a bar, and on their first date, he had revealed he was actually a transman, with a vagina.

She was uncomfortable with this, but disappointed because she got on so well with this transman, really found him attractive - but couldn't imagine having sex with him because of the vagina.

I would say most of the answers were "oh no, I couldn't date him either" - but there were some that said "it's fine, it's your choice who you sleep with, but you are a bigot if you choose not to sleep with this man just because he doesn't have a penis." And even, "well, why not give it a try, you might like it" "don't be close-minded" type posts (!)

I do worry for young people who are reading this type of stuff. I'm an old bird and couldn't care less if someone calls me a bigot or close-minded for automatically ruling out transmen from my dating pool (plus I've been married for donkeys years) - but a lot of young people would care.

I read through a thread from 2009, where a TIM won the right to be transferred to a women's prison, despite being found guilty of attempted rape. (But, because of the deletions, it's not possible to see the original article). The biggest difference between the responses then and now seems, to me at least, to be the trust that this TIM must have had surgery and hormones that now make it impossible for them to attempt rape again. I think many on here don't have that trust anymore.