A Beginners Guide to the Transgender Debate - A Signpost to Useful Mumsnet Threads

[DJLippy]

I'm relatively new to the transgender debate but since coming onto Mumsnet I have learned so much from the discussions on these boards. I've found the ones with links especially useful because quality information about this subject is very hard to find.

I can think of a few threads that I've found particularly eye opening and so thought I'd share these and ask for more links from you guys. I know that some of your have been posting for years but I think there are more and more people asking questions and trying to educate themselves. I would really like it if anyone knows of any older threads which we should read, because there is so much activity on fwr that threads can disappear after a couple of days. Here are some threads that helped in my #PeakTrans

Trans Resource thread.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3175252-A-trans-resource-thread

How to avoid trolls on Mumsnet
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3234340-The-Impact-of-Online-Harassment-Trolling

War on Lesbians
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3241510-Cotton-ceiling

Trans Lobby
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3241837-Why-has-the-trans-lobby-been-so-successful

Biology Matters in Medicine
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3236991-Biology-matters-in-medicine-medicine-failing-trans-individuals

How Self-ID has impacted other countries when introduced
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3199030-What-do-you-say-when-people-say-that-Canada-Denmark-Ireland-Argentina-and-Malta-all-have-much-easier-ways-of-getting-a-GRC-and-there-appears-to-be-no-issue

Like I said, I've only been on here a few months so if any of the regulars could share older threads that would be FAB.

[Edited by MNHQ to remove identifying information]

Thank you! Will check out the books (and the documentary)

Check out the feminism theory/feminist book club section for more theory

Not really lady, this is a feminist board for discussing transgender issues....

cheers banger

Not tonight I’m not

bump

bump for the newbies

Thanks for the links, it's really handy to have all of them on one thread

Gosh. What a tawdry and depressing thread. Truly sackcloth. Come on sisters who are not seeking to divide women against each other. Let’s hear it for sisterly solidarity, cis and trans united against......Well now, let me see, what threats do we women face? What about the Tory cuts, that hit us out of all proportion? What about the limits on abortion rights, that the alt right US friends of the identity deniers would like to introduce over here? What about the threat to the rights of our European sisters that could flow from a Tory Brexit? How’s about we indulge in a little real world feminism here, and drop the obsession with other women’s knickers? Ok?

Feel free to start any number of other threads.

But the bumps are useful

Break it down for me
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

And I guess someone wants us to ignore the news about Bradley;
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3320513-Jess-Bradley-first-transgender-student-officer-suspended-after-flashing-photos?msgid=79800741

Someone who exposes themselves, plays with their penis and posts photos online, and makes images of child abuse is not my sister.

Its OK to have acceptable standards of behaviour.
Behaviour may be on a continuum, but sexual abusers are not my sisters. I won't facilitate them, I won't enable them, I won't make excuses for them.

'Real world feminism' that excludes women right here who are being harmed by the ideology that a brain can have a sex but a penis cannot is a sham.

I am just bumping this, for @likeacrow.
FFS, this thread was still on the first page, no excuse not to find it.

Prove you ain't a sealion.

@LaSquirrel

I don't know, or care, who you think you are, but I've got fuck all to "prove" to you.

I've just as much right to post on MN as you and (referring to your previous comment to me) you don't get to assign me to any "troll bin". You're not the fucking mumsnet police.

The thread I commented on caught my eye because it was active at the time. I've read a few posts about feminism/transactivism before and been interested but not commented or asked questions despite wanting to find out more and feeling quite conflicted about the issue.

I clearly chose the wrong thread to dive in, and get that. I'm also now much clearer on what the issues are re self ID thanks to other posters pointing me in the direction of links, threads etc, without the unnecessarily aggressive tone you seem to be relishing taking with me.

I'd appreciate it if you stopped mentioning me now please.

likeacrow

Sorry you were fronted off. You were waddling like a duck so we thought you were a duck claiming to be a crow. Happy to be wrong.
We are all a bit tense and quick to snap in this the third month of the current MRA/TRA invasion.

A shout out for Peachy and Berns speaking sense. Worth watching all of these womens' videos.

Imagine a cocktail party, which is going well, everybody chatting away. Then someone walks in, halfway through the evening, and screams "where are the hors o d'oeuvres?!"

I am going to peg them as either:
a) someone with the most inept social skills, or
b) a spree killer about to unleash a spray of bullets, and hit the deck.

I think I'd rather gouge out my own eyeballs and serve those up as hors d'oeuvres than have the displeasure of attending any future cocktail party you're at, but "peg" me as whatever the fuck you want.

Stop it with the personal attacks please.

Consider me whatever the fuck you want. I can assure you I don't feel the need to give you an apology, unconditional or otherwise, nor any further explanation.

You don't get to demand either from me I'm afraid, nor do you get to tell me to "slink off".

Do you think you might be misdirecting your anger slightly?

It's funny, I've been reading the thread about online trolling (linked to from this one) and it's ringing pretty true for me:

Your troll/stalker criticises you and makes you doubt yourself. You might start believing that you’re a not good poster or lucky to have a right to comment at all.

You feel intimidated and scared of your online harasser when they get angry — their behaviour might be unpredictable or aggressive. It silences you and forces you to stop commenting.

You’re made to feel guilty and not given the freedom to say the things you want to say. Your online stalker might control you by telling you what you can and can’t believe, say or think.

I don't know what your massive issue with me is but I'm asking you to lay off, please

Oh and I got the crappy analogy. My point was that you make discussions so unpleasant it makes me not want to enter into future discussions with you, hence saying I wouldn't want to attend a cocktail party if you were there. I was using the same analogy you used, oh wise one.

And yet it's me who's thick...?!

@thebewilderness

I'm actually fully on board with the arguments against self ID having read people's links and explanations. It makes total sense. But yeah cool, I'm an "asshat". Whatever makes you feel good.

What a welcoming bunch of women on these boards.

If you're saying I'm using the DARVO defense with the previous poster, I've not attacked anyone's position at any point. I've asked questions then defended myself when some posters have lambasted me and accused me of being some kind of plant.

I genuinely do feel like some posters are trying to stop me posting, or make me feel like my posts aren't valid (because they've literally told me to "slink off" etc) which is why I highlighted the online trolling/bullying stuff.

Just my general observation on people who come here to talk about themselves and how no one is being nice enough to them, likeacrow.