A Beginners Guide to the Transgender Debate - A Signpost to Useful Mumsnet Threads

[DJLippy]

I'm relatively new to the transgender debate but since coming onto Mumsnet I have learned so much from the discussions on these boards. I've found the ones with links especially useful because quality information about this subject is very hard to find.

I can think of a few threads that I've found particularly eye opening and so thought I'd share these and ask for more links from you guys. I know that some of your have been posting for years but I think there are more and more people asking questions and trying to educate themselves. I would really like it if anyone knows of any older threads which we should read, because there is so much activity on fwr that threads can disappear after a couple of days. Here are some threads that helped in my #PeakTrans

Trans Resource thread.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3175252-A-trans-resource-thread

How to avoid trolls on Mumsnet
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3234340-The-Impact-of-Online-Harassment-Trolling

War on Lesbians
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3241510-Cotton-ceiling

Trans Lobby
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3241837-Why-has-the-trans-lobby-been-so-successful

Biology Matters in Medicine
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3236991-Biology-matters-in-medicine-medicine-failing-trans-individuals

How Self-ID has impacted other countries when introduced
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3199030-What-do-you-say-when-people-say-that-Canada-Denmark-Ireland-Argentina-and-Malta-all-have-much-easier-ways-of-getting-a-GRC-and-there-appears-to-be-no-issue

Like I said, I've only been on here a few months so if any of the regulars could share older threads that would be FAB.

[Edited by MNHQ to remove identifying information]

There was the one where we talked about trans ideology in academia, and the one about lesbian culture disappearing. Sorry am breastfeeding so can't search.

^chestfeeding

@ALittleBitOfButter - This one?:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3146166-Transactivism-and-the-lesbian-community

Playlist looks great DJ!

DJ by name DJ by nature. That's going to be my contribution to the revolution. Spotify playlists...

How does one deal with 'Trolls' (as you would see them) who repeatedly suggest (or demand) that Feminists and Trans-ists need to collaborate more openly when "needs must", and that the most suitable place for it is here?

(I was planning to post this on the "deal with Harrassment" thread but it seemed too general a topic. Happy to stick it anywhere, really. Just let me know....)

Check out the troll thread above it's still active I think

@DJLippy No special clauses involving calls for diplomacy then? The thread itself isn't trans-specific. If it was, I'd have gone there. From what I'm reading, I'm trolling if I ask twice.

Listening to Emasculate the masculine now, signed up to ur spotify!

Love,

mancheeze

Thread about puberty blockers
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/1194962-Children-of-12-to-be-allowed-gender-drugs-to-prepare-for-sex-change

Boys Toys/ Girls Toys

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/1240574-American-Psychiatry-wants-to-claim-that-children-who-play-with-the-wrong-toys-wear-the-wrong-clothes-or-play-wrong-make-believe-games-could-have-gender-dysphoria

Thread on neuroscience
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/1367343-gender-identity-disorder-and-the-brains-wired-not-wired-differently-theories

Confusion between sex and gender
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/1676581-Sex-vs-gender-getting-confused

Gender and sexual consent
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/1797994-Does-gender-matter-when-it-comes-to-sexual-consent

Not exactly trans, but thread about "check your privilege" from 2014
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/2101548-Check-your-privilege-what-exactly-does-it-mean

TERFS
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/2082153-TERF

There was one quite short and startling one where someone had dug unto the Scottish prisons process - it deemed anything other than immediate affirmation as transphobic bigotry. Hence the appalling violent men in the Scottish women's prison. ..

FFS! I’ve just trawled through this lesbian subreddit
www.reddit.com/r/LesbianActually/comments/8h5sw8/my_sexualityorientation_is_towards_biological_sex/

Poor woman was being blasted for apologetically saying that she didn’t want to have sex with transwomen but was scared to say so for fear of being seen as transphobic.

And her fears were realised because she was attacked, branded as a TERF (like that’s a bad thing?!) and she just kept...apologising. Poor thing. She needs to get herself over here where people don’t take shit from TRAs and argue back..

Bloody hell. It IS all about sex. So we have Incels hating women for not having sex with them and now Transincelists hating .. well women... for not having sex with them!

I can’t ever imagine a band of angry women banding together and demanding men have sex with them. Some men people are so entitled.

ALittleBitOfButter

Yes I saw 1 or 2 cases of a 'transwoman' in a Scottish prison who may have been taking the piss or even abusing the system. Visually and physically men and by all accounts behaving like men. I've no problem with transgender people in general and have met some in real life, all male to female, but at some point you have to ask why prisons are sex segregated and whether an inmates say so or objective assessment of their transition is more important. Kind of changed my view on transgender issues.

Thanks for this, I lurk in the backgrounds, like a bat of the feminist section, it’s been a learning experience! So having a beginners guide type thing of the threads to read is helpful!

On a slightly related note does anyone know/recommend if there are any books that cover this topic of trans and feminism (or even feminism books in general tbh) that they would recommend to me?

Sheila Jeffreys has written some good stuff, especially critiquing queer theory which underpins much of transgender ideology.

She's written a book specifically about trans issues and feminism "Gender Hurts". I haven't read it yet though. I have read "Unpacking Queer Politics" and "Beauty and Misogyny" which has a section on trans. Very enlightening.

There's a good book by Helen Brunswick Evans called Transgender Children & Young People which is about history medical transition and ROGD. The paperback is out soon.

There is a thread here with a link to a pdf copy of the Female Eunuch. I only just read it but don't be put off it's not all theory it's really enjoyable

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3244160-Germaine-Greer-Fan-Club

Also, I have a link to Frederick Engeles if you want some more theory. This is a bit denser though - lots of Marxists class anaylsis! www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/download/pdf/origin_family.pdf

This is a video from the We Need to Talk talk that got invaded by Munroe Bogoff & there's more on their website
www.facebook.com/TheJamJarBristol/videos/793672257494647/UzpfSTIwMzAyODI3MjA1MjM5OTU6MjEzMTAzMzU5Mzc4MjI0MA/

Also, a few familiar faces in this radfem BBC documentary - recondemned!

Oh yes that documentary is great!

I thought this was a pretty good “beginners” thread, lots of clear explanation

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

Cheers banger