Uncomfortable about unisex toilets at work

[Onlyinanemergency]

My workplace is moving to new premises and all the toilets are to be unisex. Apparently the bathrooms consist of several floor-to-ceiling cubicals opening out onto shared sinks. There is then a large window onto a public corridor so that the sink area can be seen from outside the bathroom. There are 3 of these bathrooms, one on each floor of the building, as well as 3 single disabled toilets. The architects have obviously put a lot of thought into creating toilets which are unisex but also fairly safe and private, yet I still feel really uncomfortable about the idea. Particularly about not being given a choice. Am I wrong?

I think the glass wall is intended as a safety measure.

We have unisex toilets at work - smallish staff team, more women than men. Two cubicles within one room, sanitary bin in both, sink outside the cubicles. It really has never been an issue.

Not many people I know would clean a moon cup in a communal sink anyway, regardless of it being mixed or women only. Not sure other women really want that happening in the sink just in front of them either tbh. Besides - don't you then have to go back into the cubicle to reinsert it? Just wipe out or carry a small bottle of water for rinsing in the cubicle.

The toilets remain clean, tidy and non smelly. Our make staff are perfectly capable of aiming it would seem. Mind you, we don't have that at home with dh, nor any of the male guests who visit. They seem perfectly able to aim directly!

We have staff of different religions - not been an issue for them either.

There is also a disabled toilet available though this is available to anyone to use, male or female, disabled or not. We don't currently have any disabled staff or pupils, but it is there for people to use should they need that facility, in additional to all staff the rest of the time.

Our EYFS toilets and some of our Y2 toilets are newly refurbished and are also unisex. The older KS1 toilets will be refurbished in time and will probably be unisex too. I am pretty sure the toilets in the KS2 school nearby are all unisex as well. Although there were some concerns initially it would appear, 2 months later, the initial worries have proved unfounded, for now at least.

I went out at the weekend somewhere with unisex loos and saw about 5 men having a piss in the cubicle with the door open. Yuck.

I don't like it at all and i don't see why I should have to put up with it.

Frosted glass would (obviously) obscure the view from the corridor thus posing a risk.

and FWIW it is the women's toilets that seem to have cleanliness issues at dh's workplace office. And I've used it - can be grim! Have to admit that I was surprised that it was the women's toilets - you always assume it'd be the mens!

Some women use cups because they can keep them in all daytime.

Another tack:
1 in 6 pregnancies end in miscarriage (NHS site) and often happens in the toilet. You need your own sink for that. Could you not raise that with work and point out there are times when women need the sink in the loo in private?

The unisex loos I've used do have sinks in each one - I think it's horrendous if not. People, usually women, with IBS often need their own toilet space and sink. Not everyone can poo even if it is another women next to them when they're not floor to ceiling 'rooms'.

Also if there is man mess because they have problems aiming then they can sit down to pee. Just because they have a penis doesn't mean they have to stand up. They could put out strict communications that employees must clean up their own mess and everyone should help keep the facilities clean.

The HSE guidance states that for mixed or female toilets you should have the same number of sinks as toilets.

Putting a window into the loo is a clear indication they know it is a safety issue for women and they do not care enough to provide for safety, privacy, and dignity, and instead are putting people on display.

I’m pretty sure health and safety regs state that there must be single sex provision.

Unfortunately it only makes it explicit that the toilets have to be in single sex lockable rooms. These tiny floor to ceiling 'rooms' count as lockable rooms.

The H&S law says that for wash facilities they don't have to be in single sex rooms if it is for hands, arms and face washing. It doesn't make clear if that is for just stand alone washing, or washing connected to a toilet. It also states the washing facilities have to be provided in the immediate vicinity of every sanitary convenience, whether or not provided elsewhere as well; So you could maybe be creative how you feed that back.

The only approved code of practice states that there should be the same number of sinks as individual toilets for mixed sex or female facilities.

Putting a window into the loo is a clear indication they know it is a safety issue

Not always. In ours it is for light.

Well one reason I would not fancy women having to use a vending machine for sanitary protection in front of a man is the thought of Mike from sales knowing when they menstruated and making the woman subject to jokes - or worse, suggesting that this might not be a good time for them to be in charge of a new account due to their "time of the month"
Most women have no desire for any man to know when they are menstruating. Why would they?

Names: that would happen

But you know. Trans identified males are more important than our miscarriages, our bleeding, our treatment at the hands of abusers and bullies, our dignity, our privacy. Put the Y first!!! Y feelings matter more than female reality.

@thebewilderness

Exactly.

Do women go into the cubicle, remove underwear, remove their full mooncup, pull up underwear, exit cubicle, empty mooncup, rinse mooncup, wash hands, take empty mooncup into cubicle, remove underwear, insert mooncup, replace underwear, exit cubicle, wash hands, leave bathroom?

I'm a paper wiper if I find myself having to empty during the day, because that seems like a huge hassle (and one that would almost certainly end up with me free bleeding during the middle bit of the procedure)

"Putting a window into the loo is a clear indication they know it is a safety issue

Not always. In ours it is for light."

It's a viewing window into the hallway.
Troll harder.

Troll??? Really?! Because I suggested an alternative reason for glass into a room?! That really isn't being a troll

First time in 15 years of MN I've had that one.

Our door window looks into a hallway. The hallway has a couple of large external windows. This the hallway is very light. The glass on the toilet door let's the light from the hall into what was a small dark room. The external window is obscured by the cubicles and is frosted so gives limited light itself.

Nothing to troll about. Just simply stating a fact, from our own situation at work. It really isn't there for security at my work place. It's there purely for light purposes.

How mortifying when a man asks a woman why she is washing her hands before using the loo (hand washing before changing tampon)

Why on earth would (a) any one notice (b) think anything of it and (c ) ask?

Having to rinse a moo cup in a communal area

As others have said - does this happen?

Making noises or smells and men being juvenile about it

We are in a workplace. Full height locked cubicles are going to mitigate that. I hate cubicles with gaps no matter who is on the other side.

All the piss all over the floor

Again it is a workplace- complain if this happens. Given that the only toilets my office manager has sent all office email about the disgusting state they were in were women's I'm guessing the 100 or so blokes I work with don't pee on the floor.

Men are going to wonder what a sanitary bin is
Because no man has ever been told about periods?

How unhygienic it is to have to touch the seat to put it down after the man before you forgot to

I would say not much but if it bothers you I suppose you could use a piece of toilet roll to touch it.

The woman with morning sickness legitimate use of disabled loo.

The woman with a heavy period who might leave some blood streaks in error

And so what? Flush it again? And so what if someone sees

Do women go into the cubicle, remove underwear, remove their full mooncup, pull up underwear, exit cubicle, empty mooncup, rinse mooncup, wash hands, take empty mooncup into cubicle, remove underwear, insert mooncup, replace underwear, exit cubicle, wash hands, leave bathroom?

Never seen this. In a workplace I think you would get other women complaining if someone was tipping menstrual blood into a sink or washing out a bloody cup at the sink.

Re. Cleaning a mooncup in the cubicle, we have unisex toilets at work.

I keep a collapsible cup in my pocket and fill it with water from the sink before going into the cubicle. I then wash the mooncup in the water, reinsert and tip the dirty water into the toilet.
I wipe down the collapsible cup, replace in pocket and take home to clean thoroughly at the end of the day

misses point of thread

I would be fine about it. As long as they have proper doors on the cubicles.

I think the men would be more fed up about lack of urinals.

I have to say that I think mooncups sound like a hell of a lot of hassle. Will stick to the tams I think (also misses point of thread)

Proud - that makes much more sense. I'll have to think about having something in my bag for this purpose.

Back to the OP, I suspect that the cubicles will become single sex, as in custom and practice will mean that some will normally be used by men and some will normally be used by women. Like when developers put a new pathway down and pedestrians create their own path that cuts off the corner

The vending machine thing...

I couldn’t care less whether John in accounts or the Head of ICT saw me buying sanitary protection.

If my workplace puts in gender neutral toilets then the men will have to put up with me doing my makeup, putting in contact lenses, brushing my hair, straightening my hair, buying tampons, brushing my teeth, putting on deodorant...

Just simply stating a fact, from our own situation at work.

Perhaps you missed the part where it is about OPs new work place. Not yours.

I know I am a bit late to this thread but for all the ‘mens toilets are way messier the women’s toilets’ brigade then I suggest you talk to anyone who is to clean a pub or club toilet at the end of the night. From the numerous crap student jobs I had working in the nighttime economy there was always piss and shit where it should not be in both the men’s and ladies toilets although the latter always has the added Brucie Bonus if used sanitary produces on the floor or on some occasions smeared up the walls.

On the work front I am reliably informed by my wife and other female friends that women seem just as capable of leaving un flushed turds, making stinky smells and or leaving blood on the seats or taps/sink.

I don’t think either gender has much of a claim to the moral high ground to be honest.

I would be fine about it. As long as they have proper doors on the cubicles

Me too- proper heavy floor to ceiling doors. I really don't like cubicles with gaps.

So far as a need for a sink because of a miscarriage or exceptionally heavy periods isn't that a legitimate occasion to use the disabled loo? You need more space and privacy than is available in the general loos.