"Transgender killers split up by prison chiefs"

[TerfinUSA]

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/transgender-killers-kept-apart-after-12493525

Yes it's Sophie formerly Daniel Eastwood who terrified a female guard into quitting her job www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/female-prison-guard-quits-after-9379668

(NB Eastwood, referred to here as Hannibal (Hannah-belle, shurely: ed) Lecter Jr is not to be confused with Tiffany Scott formerly Andrew Burns www.alloaadvertiser.com/news/15507716.Shirtless_prisoner_hurls_abuse_at_sheriff_as_she_is_jailed/)

Sophie's charming campaign of terror earned her a move from Shotts prison to the female wing at Greenock Prison, where she met her soul mate Alex Stewart (formerly murderer Alan Baker) the recently crowned 'Miss Fitness' www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3169178-Transgender-prisoner-living-as-woman-wins-jails-Miss-Fitness-competition-by-country-mile

Alex's tireless advocacy for transgender rights brought these two together www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3237471-Transgender-prisoners-in-Scotland-progress-report

Sadly they have now been separated due to them 'touching and groping in front of the other prisoners.', with Sophie shipped out to HMYOI Polmont, which has separate accommodation for male young offenders and adult women like Sophie (there are also female prisoners at Edinburgh, Greenock and Grampian)

Glad someone else posted. Two transgender murders in the women's section of greenock then now moved to women's prison Polmont. Most likely to share with women in for theft /drug addiction and vulnerable to abuse. Most women are not in for violent crimes.

Does anyone know if a female prisoner has a right to sue the prison service if they are sexually harassed or assaulted by a male bodied prisoner? I’m not saying these two have done that, but it is something I was wondering about lately. Do prisoners lose ALL their rights when they enter the system?

I think the one prisoner is still at Greenock, the other has been moved to Polmont.

Positively

Not sure precisely but possibly the closest to look might be the Zahid Mubarek case at Feltham. A case that changed the Prison Service. Mubarek was placed in a cell with a violent racist and lost his life.

As far as I’m aware, the service weren’t ever sued.

Other prisoners are subject to legal sanctions same as anyone else.

"The source said: “Some of the lassies were getting more and more uncomfortable and complained."

Recent important thread with link to Welsh Committee comments by Andrea Albutt on female prisoners fear/ discomfort:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3225546-Self-ID-and-womens-prisons

Relevant thread re transgender prison policy:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3192486-Lord-Patel-Karen-Jones-thread-anyone-want-to-go-to-House-of-Lords-to-talk-to-Lord-Patel

OK, they need to build transgender prison wings asap. They have whole prisons dedicated to sex offenders, so I cannot see how it would be too difficult. It can never be okay to have two non-operated biologically male murderers in a women's prison.

One thing is that it says that Eastwood has now been transferred to Polmont, but the internet says that Polmont is a young offender's institution. Eastwood is 32. How does that work?

Sorry, OP, I just saw that you addressed the thing about Polmont.

I think there needs to be a clear policy- prisons must be sex-segregated and there should be a transgender prison split into trans women and trans men (they don't need more than one, so nobody is asking for huge new facilities to be built).

Scotland's only female prison apparently was a shithole (suicide, etc) so they are demolishing it and have dispersed the prisoners to various places.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lhma9kbQKXk

Anne Ruzylo speaks about her professional experience in the prison service (from 5 mins in) & commitment to the vulnerable women in prisons.

"the prison service is afraid.... if a prisoner says they are going to commit suicide they receive letters from solicitors, MPs the pressure to allow or to move that person into female estate is there. Quite frankly, women lives in that sort of situation do not seem to matter."

Positively: Do prisoners lose ALL their rights when they enter the system?

Not sure if that was rhetorical? But no, human rights are upheld. And that means NOT being in a situation where you are likely to be attacked with nowhere to hide.

I cannot recall the exact figures, but most women (I think over 80%) are in for short sentences, less than 6-12 months, and of course, non-violent crimes. Only a tiny percentage are in for sentences over 5 years (incl murder/manslaughter), and a number of those killed abusive husbands/boyfriends or pimps. It seems that the male dominated legal system does not really excuse women for cases of self preservation or self defence, they would rather they died, passively. /sarcasm.

Yeppers, it is about time trans wings were allocated in male estates. Too many lifers are opting for 'lady feels' and the hopes of being transferred to a female estate. This of course, is completely unfair, and against the human rights of incarcerated females. But TRAs support the likes of Huntley.

"“Physically they are still men but they are dressed as women. A lot of prisoners just don’t get it.

“Alex has always said that her preference is men. But she did say she would consider going with a woman and it looks like Eastwood has fitted the bill."

This statement is utterly nonsensical!

Neither of these people should be in the women's estate.

Not sure if that was rhetorical? No, I genuinely wasn’t sure about the fights if female prisoners. If I’m attacked in my workplace, I can sue my work, so I was wondering what protections females have in jail. I think this will continue until female prisoners start trying to sue if put in dangerous or distressing situations with male prisoners. It needs something public to happen before anything is done. It’s fucking disgusting.

Fights = rights

Thanks for clarifying Positively, I really was not sure!
Indeed, all prisoners covered by human rights. Of course the male prisoners extend that to 'needing' the latest PlayStation console as part of their 'human rights'.

Female prisoners are lucky if they get enough sanitary products, or dignity during searches.

Must be good to be a male, eh?

www.gov.uk/life-in-prison/prisoner-privileges-and-rights
Rights
Prisoners have rights, including:

protection from bullying and racial harassment
being able to get in contact with a solicitor
healthcare - including support for a mental health condition

This is so awful. A female prisoner will have to be seriously harmed before something is done.

The issue is surely that there is no 'lobby' for the protection of the rights of women and as the word 'woman' has been legally and socially extended to include trans women, how can there be one for those born female?

And also, R0wantrees, women in prison are the bottom of the pile socially, below "feckless single mothers" even. Who cares about them? Which newspaper would lobby for the rights of an incarcerated woman? (Other than Deirdre Rachid...)

It may also be an issue of framing:

(Successful) Judicial review of pre-operative transgender woman transfer to Women's Estate (2009)
[extract]

The only evidence from an expert in gender dysphoria, Dr James Barrett of the Gender Identity Clinic, Charing Cross Hospital, who has also known the Claimant for many years, explained why living in role in female accommodation was required:

it will become clear that she is so widely accepted as female in that unit that location in the main prison will follow. I think that such acceptance will pretty generally apply in the main prison, also, although there will probably always be a small number of prisoners who will choose to make an issue of the matter because they are the sort of women who enjoy conflict. If this patient is able to cope with protracted close proximity women of that sort I would judge her able to cope with the less prolonged, more avoidable, travails of the civilian world."

cf Maria Miller's comment 'so called feminists'?
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/2993425-Maria-Miller-interviewed-by-Janice-Turner-full-text

Women's rights in prisons, particularly to be free of this new threat, is an area of feminism that needs more devotion. I wish I had more time.

I don't understand how this is allowed to happen. What about the women's rights?

If there's no surgery then how do you tell the difference between someone with dysphoria and a violent sex offender who fancies being in a woman's prison for fun?

Those poor women.

Someone is at least trying: fairplayforwomen.com/trans-prison-swap-piers-morgan/

Good link

prison reform trust might care.

Will have a google.

Aghast at that statement above that says that any woman who compains about being locked up with these types of prisoners is just an argumentative bitch and no-one should listen.

That's a bit like the witch thing -
There is no way to raise issues. If you don't complain no-one knows. If you do complain, then you're obviously one of "those" sorts of women and no-one should listen.

So...much...cognitive...dissonance. Things have come to a pretty pass when I am cheering Piers Morgan and Susanna Reid

Great report