Apparently men can get PND too

[ItsLikeRainOnYourWeddingDay]

No - they get depressed. They cannot have PND. The clue is in the bloody name - POST NATAL. No man can ever be post natal.

https://m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/olivia-spencer/postnatal-depression-gay-bb_5857968.html

A bit like my prostate problems.

I can’t get annoyed about this. The term postnatal is “relating to or denoting the period after childbirth”... not “giving birth”.

Maybe it should be termed NPD (New-Parent Depression) instead? Not sure why them being gay is overally relevant in that article though. I know a few dad's that have been told they had PND but it was only picked up because their partners told them to go see someone.

I also don't mind this

Women's PND is not just related to giving birth; it's about sleep deprivation, anxiety and life changes, and relationship changes

Post natal just means after birth

Is there another term for it beyond depression? DH's colleague experienced severe depression for the first and only time in his life after a very traumatic start to fatherhood. He met a lot of stigma too.

And generally, we need to be very sympathetic to men experiencing mental health problems, and the ensuing incidence of suicide in men. Anything that brings it into the light and encourages men to seek support is a good thing, IMO

X post SOH

I am sure DH had it, twice. Feeling depressed in the post-birth period doesn't seem like something that's exclusive to women who become parents.

I was flamed on here years ago for doubting this!
I'm sure they can get a bit pissed off with the lifestyle changes and tiredness but they aren't also recovering from massive body trauma and hormonal crap!
I'd murder dh if he tried to say he had this

Sorry, I don't agree. 'Post-natal' means 'the period after childbirth' it says NOTHING about actually giving birth.

Of course men can become depressed after the birth of a child, it's as much an upheaval in their lives as it is in the mother's.

Stop getting offended by things that aren't there.

I'd murder dh if he tried to say he had this

Scathingly ponders why suicide rates are so high in men under 50 when their wives casually threaten murder if they disclose any weaknesses in their mental health...

DH's colleague wasn't "a bit pissed off", he was shattered, at risk and hospitalised.

It is v important that we don't belittle mental health issues in this way.

I believe that and don't see this as being much different to Post Adoption Depression. I guess the hormonal changes could make a difference though so maybe Twittlebee is right, New Parent Depression.

11th rule of misogyny: whatever women suffer from, it is worse when it happens to men.

I think men can suffer massively after the birth of a child and that does need to be addressed and acknowledged... however there needs to be a different term for this depression as the one suffered by women can be in part hormonal and become quickly very dangerous and severe.

I suffered from Postpartum Psychosis after giving birth and it was horrendous. PND can very quickly change into this and it is not the same as the depression experienced by men. The PND in women needs to be approached differently to any post birth depression experienced by men and so I dont think its helpful to use the same name for them both.

Men can get stress induced depression not pnd ...

Yes, I believe they do and it can be very serious. Are you equally outraged about men getting breast cancer?

Whatever you call it they can get ill in the period after they become a father.

I’m usually fully on the side of the feminist board prevailing opinion but not on this. If any human being is suffering from depression of any kind they need support.

And from my POV I know, first hand. What it’s like to have a newborn, wonder if you have PND and simultaneously watch my husband spiral into depression.

It’s not fun. And saying ‘it doesn’t exist’ would have hurt me as much as it hurt him.

There was a thread on this last year.

It doesn't matter what it's called... calling it post natal depression in men doesn't take anything away from the women who suffer from post natal depression and it's important that there is an established term which is taken seriously by the medical profession to describe what men may suffer after the birth of their child. It is far more important that people of either sex suffering after the birth of their child receive appropriate treatment and support than that a technically correct term is used. Perhaps, over time, it would be better if a separate term be developed to distinguish the condition in men from the condition in women as I suspect there are differences, not least hormonal. But as there is currently no such established term, let's focus on getting people who are suffering the help they need.

I work with expectant and new parents and the message we are asked to give by mental health organisations and the NHS is that men can get PND and birth trauma and PTSD in the post-partum period. A lot of PND is not hormonal, it arises from.problems adjusting to the massive life change and can be from witnessing a traumatic birth. I have known quite a few new dad's who I have thought were quite traumatised after a bad birth or poor care. I think birth is a huge feminist issue but not this particular facet.

PND seems to be a term widely used in the scientific literature on the subject (I just had a quick look on google scholar).

Strong feminist here. But my dear sensitive brother definitely had PND after his first dc. He was shocked, hugely sleep-deprived and overwhelmed.

'Scathingly ponders why suicide rates are so high in men under 50 when their wives casually threaten murder if they disclose any weaknesses in their mental health...'

Its not 'disclosing weaknesses in mental health' that anyone has an issue with, Its using the term PND.

Depression is a serious issue and of course men should talk about it and receive treatment... the problem is that using a term which is supposed to be for the depression experienced by mothers due to giving birth. Its not even that one is any 'worse' than the other.. its just that they are DIFFERENT things which have different causes and need different treatment.

Birth can have a profound effect on men and women and they may both need help. But you cannot and should not say that the experience of giving birth is the same for men and women because it is most certainly not.

Experiencing depression or psychosis because of stress and lack of sleep can happen to either parent but it is only the woman who will be experiencing the hormonal element of this which is what the term PND is referring to.

My PP was not caused by lack of sleep or anything like that, it was immediate after delivery. I could not recognise anyones faces and could not understand what was being said to me. I thought the baby they gave me was made from rubber! Ive never been so scared in my life. And although some of it may have been down to the trauma of labour, it really was a hormonal thing and a specific reaction that women only are at risk of.

Spend time in a mother and baby unit and you will see how distinct the depression and psychosis that women experience after birth is from that experienced by men. Its a specific illness and it specifically effects women because of what their bodies and minds have just gone through.

I believe that and don't see this as being much different to Post Adoption Depression. I guess the hormonal changes could make a difference though so maybe Twittlebee is right, New Parent Depression

I agree completely with this

Hormones are obviously part of (a large part of?) PND for women who have given birth, but not exclusively. The other triggers that can take someone from "baby blues" to PND can be present for the parent who hasn't delivered too

I'm sure men can get post-birth trauma, I've known some (as a midwife). They'd often not go to any antenatal classes,then pitch up in labour & be horrified about what was going on. Even in a straightforward delivery. Sometimes led to postnatal sex problems in the man too. I'm sure I read some years ago that adoptive parents can also go through depression after adopting. Let's not belittle it but let's research it instead, find some ways to improve things.