Does "dropping the ball" work?

[vinegarqueen]

Keep on seeing idiot posts in the Guardian comment threads along the lines of:

"I'd do the washing up/look after the kids/do laundry, but I'm not allowed and my wife gets there first."

Yes, stupid women for actually doing jobs. I always wonder how long these blokes leave these jobs before they are done by their OH.

Out of interest, has dropping the ball (ie, just leaving household chores till male partner does them) worked for anyone on here without some serious conversations beforehand -and a cattle prod- ? My partner does do a lot of chores but it's taken a lot of explaining that he can't just choose to do the washing up three days later as it makes me suffer the mess and it is worse than nothing, etc etc

Early in our relationship we divided household stuff equally, if anything dh did slightly more than me.

Then many years later I got pregnant and because it made me so ill I started noticing how everything had stopped being so equal. By then I was doing all the cooking, shopping, clothes washing, most of the cleaning etc. Dh expressed concerns that he wouldn’t know how to do anything with the baby, I could see it was going to be my job.

Then I gave birth, was completely destroyed by the whole process, crash section, sepsis.

I couldn’t sit up unaided, I couldn’t even hold my baby by myself, couldn’t pick her up at all. Dh stepped up and was fantastic, did everything. Then at home he helped with all night wakings for months, did everything in the house, did loads with dd. I had pnd and for over a year he pulled far more weight than I did.

It’s levelled out again now. But it’s kind of worse because it’s like he can’t see all the things I do, and he thinks I’m really lazy.

So dropping the ball definitely worked, but the underlying problem that subconsciously he thinks everything house and child related should be my job will always be with us, although he would be horrified to hear it spelled out.

I know plenty of women in their twenties that do all the tidying up and plenty other shitwork. It's just that before children there's not much of it and if you choose to leave it then nobody but you and him are inconvenienced.

When you gave children, you lose opt outs. If you've already accepted on the small scale that women "own" the housework and shitwork then you are screwed when the real work kicks in after children. So many don't understand the importance of the red flags in the early days.

With normal men, if you have become an accidental gatekeeper, which can happen, particularly on a long maternity leave, then dropping the ball does work. I speak from personal experience.

If you've married a misogynist that doesn't work though. He's just gets angry at you for being shit and everyone suffers.

How does one drop the ball without the children suffering though?

they think “equality is sorted”

Yes I see that.

But it goes both ways; as lass says, I didn't pick it up in the first place. Husband was a fully functioning adult when I met him. - lass, you clearly understood more about sexism and shared responsibilities and could recognise that in your husband. Many women have only had half the penny drop (myself included a few years ago) and think there's equality all sorted out or don't have the vocabulary/ deeper understanding as they've not been exposed to the conversations, again as society (the patriarchy) has duped them into thinking it's 'all sorted out.'

I see many women at work perpetuating sexism through their own perpetuation of stereotypes without awareness of those stereotypes. And then complain about men being useless.

Scent that's also my experience.

When Dh and I met we were both young free professionals. There was equal footing. A lot did change when we had a child - 8 years after we met- as it uncovered the way Dh was brought up.

I'm delighted own ds is School age and we are about to have a baby. He wants to do so much for it. He's also noticed that 'there's not enough man teachers' at school though there is a fab male TA in reception. And does now see DH pick up mess and fold clothes.

I was out of action, as in completely out of action for eight weeks. So if you are thinking of doing this:
My observations were

1. most things were done but not to a high standard and lots of corners were cut
2. nutritional dinners were swapped for weird cocotions but at least the dc were fed
3. dc stepped up several gears to ensure they had all the right things for school
4. dh doesn’t notice mess or dirt in the same way I do, nothing wrong with his eyesight but just different views.
5. we ran out of essentials regularly
6. no one got a single birthday card or present in the whole time
7. nothing was organised beyond what was happening right there and then that day
8. He found the stress of the mental load, with so many things to remember and juggling everything would over load him and he lost it a few times.
9. animals were not walked, rabbits etc not cleaned out
10. he did well :)

6) no one got a single birthday card or present in the whole time

What is it with that one?

Seeing as we are on the feminism board it is worth pointing out that that men are not deficient in any way, they are as capable of doing work around the house as any woman is. They do not "fail" to see the dirt or find it hard to cope with housework alongside full time work (any more than any woman does)

If your partner or husband is failing to step up it is because they are choosing to or you are letting them. Often out of some preconceived notion that they are just rubbish at household stuff, therefore you need to do it all yourself.

They have brains, they have eyes, they are capable of carrying out day to day functions like having a job. They are therefore capable of doing housework.

They just don't want to.

Yes. I like the adage that "if you can operate an iPad you are more than capable of operating a dish washer/ mop/ washing machine/ cleaning a toilet" with regards to children. Same applies.

If you can notice a tiny scratch on a car and spend an hour buying a special pen and filling it in, you can notice a messy kitchen top and wipe it up.

DP is lazy, if he can get away with not doing something he will (except at work, where he's bloody diligent).

So when I'm not there, the kids will be fed, but veggies will be lacking, important washing will be done, but no beds will be changed, the dishwasher will be done, but the sides will never be wiped etc. Oh, and no bills would be paid - but then if it was just him, there'd be one account, and everything would be on direct debit, so no bills would have to be paid.

Everyone survives, but it's not great long-term.

I have very low standards (which is why I have a cleaner, to keep things a bit better than we would naturally) - but even I will wipe down sides, clean toilets, wipe the bathroom floor when it's finally so covered with fuzz that I can see it without my contacts in. Whereas DP refuses to think ahead on this stuff, and always waits until the situation is desperate before doing it, and that's because he's used to me being capable for him (and that extends to everything - house, cars, kids, even in work if we're working for the same company). I can only think that this is learned behaviour.

Dropping the ball works only when it's something that's purely him, and I need to make sure that I stay totally hands off or he'll sit back and let me - eg. kids bedtimes, I actually hide so that he can't delegate anything to me!

Someone shared that "Your husband is the oldest child you will ever look after" shit on Facebook yesterday. The idea that men are just grown up children gives me the rage.

Also cultural factors. A colleague told me her now husband who is around 60 noticed a big difference in attitudes and sexism in this northern city area compared to the area down south that he'd come from - in business and just day to day living. Which I'd agree with

Me too. I noticed this with a southern boyfriend. When I visited his family there was a lot of "girls doing x, and The Men doing y" regardless of age group. The only sexist comments I hear at my (northern) workplace are from our token cockney lad

Happily I married a proper Manc who is massively capable.

Myteapot, I think he meant the other way round! That it seemed to be more sexist up north! But there's probably areas all around the country where traditional roles are more ingrained. But, Manchester is pretty cosmopolitan.

some would debate that Manchester is the Midlands...

Ekphrasis - oh right!

Maybe not a regional thing then, they're everywhere I tell you!

looks suspiciously over shoulder

We started off nice and equal. But for good and nefarious reasons by the beginning of last year the workload was squarely in my court.

Last year my mother and sister stepped up to help the children, and DH’s mother came down for 5 days to help ‘me’ (she didn’t visit me in hospital).

I would argue that my story is not unique. Pre-children sharing the load is easy and if both partners have lived alone they will already know that there are jobs that just need to happen. But when children enter the story everything shifts and all the information out there says that women do more of the work and men are applauded for whatever amount they do.

Pre children we were equal.

During maternity leave as the one at home I naturally did more, and that's when it became unequal - even when DH was made redundant and was sahp for a while I was still somehow responsible for children and home. He seemed capable of housework OR children, but not both at the same time, like I did.
Shared parental leave as a norm is so so important for this feminist issue.

Men do see dirt and grime obviously, they just care much less about it in general.
However, they do prefer to live nice clean houses with clean towels and bedsheets, just not enough to sort that for themselves (in my experience and that of all my female friends anyway).
I think the worst part of living with a man is realising all the little invisible things you do that they dont: changing beds, cleaning out the bin, cleaning the bathroom floor, throwing away crap, dusting..and I'm not even that great at housework.
I have lived with fairly domestically competent men, who did keep their places in pretty good order, but quite soon after moving in would do less and less..because a woman will do it.
The only man I know who does more domestic stuff than his partner is my gay brother.

I did the dropping the ball thing years ago.
Both of us had ft jobs... Mine much more stressful yet all domestic responsibilities were mine...
I was literally on the edge all the time, I am a highly driven perfectionist, typical over achiever... So just got more and more obsessed with everything being perfect for daughters and the house etc.
Something snapped...
I just stopped and when I got the usual questions like 'where are my socks?'.. I just shrugged and said 'I don't know there not my socks'... And then instead of running round lookibg for socks I just carried on drinking my coffee.. (simple example but you get the drift)
I did have to lower my standards a bit... So when I hadn't cooked dinner Cus I'd been last one hone from work, and my response to 'what are we having tonight'... Was 'don't know, what have YOU cooked'... And we ended up with pizza or takeaway. I did not critise, just ate it, and over time cooking picked up, standards at home picked up and we were all so much happier.

I rage at the learned helplessness of men and the enabling women who look after them.. And then moan on mn

If I Ford the ball my husband would step up. He is a big boy after all. But he is just shit with anything remotely practical not as particular as I am and it would cause me less aggregation to do the laundry etc that to have to watch him doing it wrong. But the things that he does well (like ironing) I won't do if I don't feel like it (I mammalian try to do the bulk of domestic tasks because he works harder than I do and needs the support) and he will just do it himself.

autocorrect is great isn't it? Dairy

I have tried to explain this to my young female workmates, but maybe it won't happen to them?

Yes of course it works, as long as you're not expecting it to be done "your way".

This killed my marriage - the slow drift from doing things 50/50 to me basically being so much in charge of everything that becoming a FT working mother to two under-5s was still easier. I currently have a DP who doesn't live with me but does the majority of household stuff when he's around - he enjoys it and doesn't see it as my job. But I'm constantly wary because I worry he's just on his best behaviour, and I have to curb an impulse in myself to say "oh let me do that!" in a "aren't-I-a-domestic-marvel" type way, which clearly is what I subconsciously associate with being a Good Girlfriend.

I always feel vaguely guilty when I read these threads, as I was that deck of cards 😅 I have no interest in housework, considered that my responsibility ended with seeing everyone was fed, didn't give a shit. Still don't. My ex used to go ballistic, but the complaints simply rolled off me. If I'd done any housework it would be just one more thing I'd have had in my nose against him when he fucked off 😅

'there's not enough man teachers'

No they are too busy being fast tracked into head roles.

autocorrect is great isn't it? Dairy

😂