Liz Truss MP breaks cover: backs MN

[RedToothBrush]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5642853/Cabinet-minister-prompts-transgender-row-backing-Mumsnet-users.html
Cabinet minister prompts transgender row after backing Mumsnet users 'leading backlash against militant activists'

That's a total if THREE Trans stories in the Mail on Sunday online dated with the 21st/22nd April.

This is Truss's tweet from 4 days ago

Elizabeth Truss @ trussliz
I enjoy a heated debate with @MumsnetTowers on childcare and I hail her for her approach to free speech. #openminded #freemums
With link to Kirkup's spectactor article.

The original tweet only got about a dozen replies, 24 retweets and a 105 likes.

Cursed E was one of the few responders.

It doesn't matter what Tory MPs say...they always vote with the Government in Parliament. Even the one who had crocodile tears about how the poor in her constituency were suffering, still votes for more suffering. This is currently a Tory policy in the making and they are the ones in power.

I'm pretty sure the Tories have dropped self-ID, actually. Maria Miller as an individual is still pushing for it.

Sorry, but is anyone else's first thought when they see something about Liz Truss our disgraceful cheese importing shenanigans?

I am not familiar with cheese-gate.

Reminded me though that I just watched Boxtrolls (brilliant), and when I googled in an attempt to find a trailer to show friends the second link that came up in the list of Boxtrolls-related questions one might ask google was "is Boxtrolls transphobic".

And this is why we can't have nice things.

Well done Liz!

As for TERFs in disguise - it's not the so-called TERFs who are hiding their faces to physically assault women and prevent them from attending meetings to peacefully discuss proposed changes to legislation.

Learning to communicate is about learning how you sound to those who agree with and how you sound to those who don't. Current politics driven by social media is encouraging people to do the exact opposite. This is being used by political psychologists and activists against the electorate. They want people to stop talking. Its divide and conquer via fear and intimidation.

I have been amazed at how successfully this has been done in this debate so far.

The same set of people have also been targeting the narrative, history and acceptable language use through:

• re-writing Wikipedia (feminist history, definition of woman etc
• influencing google search results (e.g. Women murdered in 2017 result, paid advertising to suggest a GC feminist perspective is transphobic, who knows what else we don't know)
• targeted mass complaints on twitter to shut down women's concerns and the ability to name biological differences
• similar Facebook complaints and actively excluding people who name basic biological facts and ask questions about women's and children's safeguarding or try to talk about women's rights or issues related to their biology.

Legal and lobbying work to redefine and enforce language that has enabled this has clearly been done. Equality policies and wording that don't protect women on the basis of sex are also a big part of this.

Tackling all this is the next big battle for women.

Women need to retain language to discuss their rights and men are actively working to remove this. Pretty successfully at the moment.

Just be mindful that all this could disappear in two weeks time.

There is one more Sunday before the local elections. I am betting we shall see some strong stuff next weekend as there is political capital here.

Given that the Mail on Sunday seems to have identified children, as the achilles heel of TRAs, I expect more along those lines. (Note TRAs starting the narrative of section 28 and where this now seems to be heading. I have a gut feeling what the Mail might go for next, but I will reserve my thoughts for now).

I don't necessarily think that the Tories have abandoned self ID for this reason.

The Tories haven't abandoned self ID, the consultations are still going ahead.

It doesn't matter what Tory MPs say...they always vote with the Government in Parliament.

Ah, but Liz Truss is part of the Government - she's not a backbench Tory MP who can say what she likes only to be whipped into voting in line with her Party.

The protocol is very clear - Members of the Government are not permitted to speak/write publicly against the Government; if they disagree with Gov't policies, they must step down in order to speak out (except in relation to issues that are specific to their constituency).
This is the second Gov't Minister who has indicated that they do not agree with the #nodebate culture.
It may have something to do with Stonewall recently (or soon to be - I can't remember the date) being hosted in Parliament.

Kudos, Liz Truss. I hope that she is the first of many.

I have been amazed at how successfully this has been done in this debate so far.

Its been done successfully using the same methods throughout history. We have largely seen it as a thing of the past and become complacent about its use. It has crept in slowly over a number of years, until 2016 when the dam burst and it became acceptable to brazenly use such tactics.

Corruption of language is always a massive red flag. Language is power. Control the language and you control people. Take common and agreed language away from the masses and put it into the hands of a few and you generally end up with a problem.

The protocol is very clear - Members of the Government are not permitted to speak/write publicly against the Government; if they disagree with Gov't policies, they must step down in order to speak out

Have you been following politics much in the last two years. This simply is not true.

Ask Boris Johnson.

That's the first time I've fully understood how Arduous an ordeal it is for a transsexual to undergo the grrc process. She writes very movingly about it. Like Jaycee and Truscum, she seems to regard it as a necessary and worthwhile ordeal though

red. Yes, there are always exceptions made for Boris - but many front bench careers have ended because individuals can no longer keep quiet about their own opinions. Iain Duncan-Smith is the most memorable in recent history.

Wrong thread, sorry

Its been done successfully using the same methods throughout history. We have largely seen it as a thing of the past and become complacent about its use.

I have been guilty of this.

Are these two things new:

1. Reach and level of control possible with new technology

1. Low level of awareness in general of degree of men actively working to control language and the narrative within tech (I had no idea before watching the TRA game play out)

Ellen I think of “Pork”
I watch too much HIGNFY
Surprised to be writing this but Thank You Liz Truss.
And as for Delia’s new-found love of netball, massive massive eye roll. Former man finds success in women’s sports.

No - right thread. I type VERY slowly.

Iain Duncan-Smith is the most memorable in recent history

An example of pre-May government.

Johnson is not the only example under May. Just about every cabinet minister has had a turn. Hammond, Fox, Rudd, Davies to name just a few. Examples of ministers resigning for going against policy seems to be exception rather than the rule currently. Its just not happening. Instead we just get a curt slap down from May if they are unlucky. Simple silence is more common.

God im bored of all the "literal violence" bullshit. There's no such thing. Violence is violence is violence and everybody understands what that means. Having a different opinion isnt inciting violence ffs. The TRA misappropriation of language has very sinister echoes of what happened in Nazi Germany.

Honestly if I could recommend just one thing to help people understand politics and the current state of things, I say to read and learn as much of this wikipedia page as your brain will allow and then see how many you can spot in an average day on social media in particular

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_techniques

Knowing these helps you understand what people are trying to do and make you think so much better.

Thanks Red.

That should be being taught in schools.

Not specific ideologies pushed using them.

The converse to all these various techniques is the encouragement of critical thinking and getting people to form their own opinions.

The foundation of liberal democracy is the encouragement of critical thinking. Always keep this in mind.

Jefferson effectively said the truth should be allowed to stand alone, without the need to use these techniques extensively (ironically the American revolutionaries did use extensively to win independence, but they won because they used the power of the truth and the power of critical thinking as a crucial part of winning support, rather than forcing people to behave in a certain way)'.

There are historical parallels and examples of how to fight authoritarianism. Find them and work out why they were effective. Especially in the context of a possible far right back lash springing from all this. Provide a moderate alternative.

I just read through that and you can pick out the techniques that are being used, really interesting, thanks. Now we need to think about the best ways of countering them. I guess the staying on message thing maybe, just keep repeating "Difference of opinion is not violence", "There is no such thing as literal violence"

"There is no such thing as literal violence"

Maria Mac might beg to differ...