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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Labour Party confirm that all women shortlists are open to anyone who IDs as a woman

137 replies

CapnHaddock · 17/04/2018 13:52

They did not consult as promised, they did not discuss. They just decided.

Jennifer James has instructed her solicitors.

Fuck the Labour Party. That is the final nail in the coffin for me. Anyone got any ideas about how best to spoil the ballot next month?

OP posts:
OlennasWimple · 18/04/2018 04:02

Could Jennifer James run an independent campaign? It sounds like she could pull in a fair number of votes.

She could run as an independent in one constituency. Historically this has been more successful as a tactic to raise awareness about a particular issue than to get political representation, though it has happened in the past that a single issue MP has been elected (for example Roger Taylor stood for election on the basis of opposing the closure of the local hospital in Kidderminster). There are two main problems, however: firstly, getting sufficient support in a single place (JJ might get elected if there were a MN Constituency, but we are scattered all over the country, or indeed world); secondly, even when elected it is very very difficult for an independent MP to wield much clout in Parliament. Even the prominent and respected former journalist Martin Bell had limited impact in Parliament - though in the current times of tiny majorities, perhaps that has also changed a little in favour of the independent MP.

I worry about the ballot spoiling as then you're stuck with whoever the rest of the public decide on, but then I don't know... do the spoiled votes make an impact on British politics?

That's a risk... Better to vote for the least worst option or make a political point and end up with the very worst option? Voters who support smaller parties make this sort of decision all the time - is it a "wasted vote" to vote for someone who you know will never get in? Personally, I think that this is a case by case consideration: in my constituency, it's almost certain that there will always be a Tory MP because of the demographics of the area. Therefore, if I don't want to vote Tory but want to support another party I can do so knowing that it won't affect the overall outcome of the election but it might help indicate to that party that they do have a small support base in the area. But sometimes, if it's too close to call, it might be wiser to, say, vote Tory in order to lessen the chances of UKIP getting elected instead, even if that means that it's not really a proper representation of your views.

Spoiled papers only really make an impression on the general public (rather than politics fans) if there are particularly large numbers of them; they are part of a publicised and coordinated campaign; they have an impact on the final result (a sitting candidate doesn't get returned and loses by a similar number as the amount spoiled votes, for example); or the spoiled ballots are amusing or reportable in some way (like this Buzzfeed article on spoiled ballots - spoiler alert (pun intended), there are a lot of badly drawn knobs)

Have the conservatives stated their position since the shite hit the fan? What party was David Davis (the one who let the debate occur at HoC) from? What was his party's stance?

David Davis is a Conservative MP. The Conservatives are being quite quiet at the moment - I suspect that they have been waiting to see where Labour go with the AWS issue (they don't have AWS, so it's not a direct issue for them). Amber Rudd, the Home Secretary, has made some encouraging noises about preserving sex based protections for women, and individual MPs have said supportive things, like Liz Truss supporting Justine MN's insistence that there should be space to debate the issues. But there's not been an official party policy update, as far as I'm aware. The government line is still that there will be a consultation on self-ID this summer, but I can see that slipping and slipping and slipping, as quite simply Brexit and Syria are occupying too much capacity across government and in Parliament to give room for a difficult consultation on something that is not so time-sensitive.

OlennasWimple · 18/04/2018 04:05

One other thing: I obviously don't claim to know for certain, but JJ is very pro-Corbyn. I can't see that she would run against Labour in an election, and they certainly wouldn't agree not to field a candidate against her in order to smooth her path (in the examples cited in my last post, the Lib Dems agreed not to run a candidate so that the independent candidate could benefit from LD votes)

TotallyLibrarianPoo · 18/04/2018 06:10

@OlennasWimple Thank you for taking the time to answer me in so much detail!Flowers I really appreciate it.

It's hard sometimes when you're on the outside looking in to know or understand all the ins and outs. Your posts laid it out very clearly. And damn, it does look dire.

What does one do to get some kind of sanity back in the world?Sad

Angryresister · 18/04/2018 11:55

I live abroad so can't vote in local elections. I am dissatisfied with the Labour position on Brexit, but mainly angry about anti woman stance...also the policy on legalizing prostitution. I think the idea of a concerted campaign to identify why we are not voting labour is a good one, but local elections where Tories are elected cannot be good for anyone. I admire the women who are staying in and attempting to change the party from within, but see no hope with this latest announcement. I am rooting for all women who are prepared to spoil their papers in order to deliver a strong message...presumably some would have normally voted Tory.

marthiemoo · 18/04/2018 12:10

@OlennasWimple It does help, thanks! I actually welcomed the Labour announcement, though I totally see why the lack of consultation is not great. But thankyou for taking the time to explain. There seems to be a lot of defensiveness on both sides which is unhelpfully escalating the debate, though I can understand that everyone's feeling exposed and vulnerable for different reasons.

Winewinewinegin · 18/04/2018 12:13

At least two other conservative MPs have publically voiced concerns about some aspects of Self-ID. Margot James who has retweeted Janice Turner more than once. And Jacob Rees Mogg mentioned concerns about misuse of access to women's spaces.

Winewinewinegin · 18/04/2018 12:23

Though there was one male conservative mp on question time mindlessly repeating the 'transwomen are women' mantra in order to get a round of applause from the under 30 audience.

Not sure if he didn't realise the implications of this or just didn't care. Maybe if he had been asked if we should change the law to make it legal for any man to go into female prisons or changing areas because he says so he would have said 'god no'.

But nobody asked. So the implications of the polite right on sounding phrase 'TW are W' while sitting next to a glamorous looking TW were hidden.

Does that make MP really think someone with a penis is a woman? Does he see any issues for his constituents if the law does? Would be quite a different conversation, no?

Winewinewinegin · 18/04/2018 12:24

make = male.

Anyone remember who it was?

DJLippy · 18/04/2018 12:40

I've started a thread for anybody who wants to add their names to a mass resignation letter from the labour party. You can find out more from this link

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3225484-Labour-Party-Mass-Resignation-Letter

SirVixofVixHall · 18/04/2018 13:01

Winewinewinegin I think it was James Cleverly ?

Viago · 18/04/2018 13:11

wine James Cleverly?

Viago · 18/04/2018 13:12

I hadn't refreshed the page Blush Thanks Vix.

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