have I got this right? (girl guides again)

[Thanksforthatamazingpost]

I'm sorry, it's another girl guides thread, but I was eating my tuna sandwich and suddenly had this thought.

Some teenage boys become girls for the purposes of the Girl Guides' current guidance.

Contrary to what I had once naively assumed, many transwomen are still predominantly sexually attracted to women. I only realised this once a close trans friend explained that actually she isn't into men.

So these teenagers who have become girls (from the Guides' point of view) are sexually attracted to girls, and presumably have all the usual desires to explore that most teenagers have.

And then they share a tent.

And the girls are not allowed to say anything.

Please tell me this is wrong.

And of course lesbians can't be get pregnant so who needs birth control

They can request alterbatuve arrangements but then they end up separated from their friends so they clearly won't

Of course there's always scouts where you can do the same stuff which kinda proves it's all about validation

I believe your summary is basically correct. But do you mean morally wrong? It's definitely morally wrong as far as I am concerned.

hmm hmm

But they can't request alternative arrangements Giles because GGUK's guidance specifically states that a guide's sex is confidential. So if a guide joins - or even a new volunteer - and they are male, the guide leader is not allowed to tell the girls they're sharing a tent with.

I meant please tell me I had got it wrong, had misunderstood.

This is fucking nuts.

Isn't this ridiculous. Even the Victorians didn't have confidential sex.

Even nspcc don't see a problem so....

Nope, you haven't got it wrong. That's what I keep saying in response to the people who squawk with outrage and say "are you saying all transgirls are predators?" My answer is, no of course they're not. But all you need is mixed accommodation and normal levels of teenage hormonally driven randiness and consensual experimentation and... et voila, teenage pregnancies.

Isn't this ridiculous. Even the Victorians didn't have confidential sex.

Lol

Yes Thanks that appears to be their policy.

Also they won't inform the parents of the girls who will be sleeping overnight with boys/showering with boys.

I wonder how many parents are aware of this? It's not as though they even consulted them or told them I believe?

Beyond the awareness raising done by groups like FairPlay and in the media.

Still, the teenage pregnancies are sorted by the implant these days

The chief exec has resigned, she is taking her politics to Action for children.

This is one of the assumptions people make about trans identified males which makes them wonder what all the fuss is about. They assume TIMs are attracted to men and therefore would not sexually assault women. The other myths are that they have genital surgery, pass as women and “just want to live their lives quietly”. Obviously some do but they’re not the ones the rules need to be made for. Also TIMs retain male pattern criminality after transition according to a very extensive academic study that really needs to be followed up with research in this country.

Let me just chuck in this consideration:
Even if the boy is gay, bi, or other, the girls, who are female, will be forced to pretend that their sex and his sex are irrelevant, and they are forced to relinquish their own personal boundaries without discussion.

I bet none of the girls comfortably undress in front of their brothers, dads, or male friends.
I bet a significant portion wouldn't be happy dealing with or talking about menstruation with them too.
But they will be forced into this situation that will make them feel exactly as they would with any other boy.

This is about their dignity and right to boundaries too. About their right to recognition of their OWN sex as not the same as a boy's sex.

They assume TIMs are attracted to men and therefore would not sexually assault women

And say that it's indifferent to lesbians changing with women. they forget that assult is never about sexuality it's about power

Yep, completely doolally.

The chief exec has resigned, she is taking her politics to Action for children.

Oh really? Do you have a link?

Discussion with links on the last few pages of the India Willoughby thread.

Thx

Exactly Barrack. There's absolutely an argument about safety, but the more fundamental one is about boundaries and dignity. I don't think that I am at risk of assault from the majority of MIT, but I also don't want to get undressed in front of them or have intimate medical examinations or personal care performed by them. I'm not a bigot for saying this

The interesting thing is reading the Scouts' guidance which talks about separate sleeping and changing facilities. Because their rules are about protecting girls who identify as boys from the male gaze. The GGUK rules have no interest in girls. None.

"This is one of the assumptions people make about trans identified males which makes them wonder what all the fuss is about. They assume TIMs are attracted to men"

This is what I had assumed until my own trans friend (who I happily share a room with not that that matters but that's because it's her and I've known her for a decade) put me (gently) right.

oh dear.

Here is a link to the guidance on Girlguiding's website:
www.girlguiding.org.uk/making-guiding-happen/running-your-unit/including-all/lgbt-members/supporting-trans-members/

And no, parents won't be told.

I think people presume TIM is the equivalent of a 'very gay' man.