Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

THIS is why i don't support womens rights

59 replies

Wilhamenawonka · 15/04/2018 20:32

Deliberately goady thread title there but it's true and please be gentle because I'm in tears writing this.

I'm weak. So fucking weak.
It's not that I don't believe in everything that you talk about here. I'm a true convert and my contribution Is to try and bring my kids up to value themselves and each other and to see the inequalities and barriersthat are there.

But as for anything else i just can't. Simply writing this is causing me panic.

I was brought up by the most misogynistic man you can imagine. Jokes about domestic abuse, women/men are just like that, aggressive, you name it.
You didn't argue. It simply wasn't worth it.

I had value because i earned well. Now i don't and am a single mum and the disappointment is openly strong.

He's sick of feminists complaining and never doing anything.
He thinks that equality of sexes at work is wrong because it should just be the right person for the job.
His mother held the purse strings so financial abuse isn't really a thing.
Women abuse men too dontcha know. His mates were taken for everything in the divorce.
And when he can't ignore something any longer his answer is that he lives in a bubble and isn't part of the world any more, in other words he doesn't want to talk about it.
And on and on and on and on.
Relentlessly and forever.

After i told him about some horrendous stuff my friends had gone through he kept on making jokes about domestic abuse
(one friend had her head kicked in).

But last week, when i had told him that every woman i know has been assaulted, his answer was to say 'are you accusing me of abusing your mother?' (Said in his slow burning angry voice)
THAT was his response. All about him. All about him feeling atracked. Changing the narrative. Avoiding. Being aggressive.

I ended up screaming that every woman i know includes his own fucking daughter (me). And he finally listened. But for me it was too late.

But it's too hard. I've spent my whole life trying not to draw his disapproval because it's scary as fuck. I grew up with it. It's in my dna.

And I'm not the only one. You guys are so brave but this is a massive barrier feminism has too get through. Its not just internalized misogyny you have to fight but womens fear of drawing the wrath of the men they know.
What you're doing is SO important.

I'm too scared to even post a feminist type thing on fb on case he sees it. It's so deeply ingrained and i don't know if I'll every be free of the fear.

I won't be the only one.
And like i said THAT'S why l don't (openly) support you.
I'm sorry.

OP posts:
TerfsUp · 15/04/2018 20:33

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

BoreOfWhabylon · 15/04/2018 20:34
Flowers
Wilhamenawonka · 15/04/2018 20:35

Its true terf.
Its taken a week to write this.
Fear Is a huge barrier to prone being able to speak hip

OP posts:
Spindelina · 15/04/2018 20:36

Flowers Thank you for writing here.

TheLongHotSummer · 15/04/2018 20:37

I don't understand why you don't support women's rights, though??

Wilhamenawonka · 15/04/2018 20:38

Which bit don't you believe anyway?
That i grew up with a misogynist?
That i grew up afraid of disapproval?
That someone can say the unpleasant things he's said?
That I'm scared of speaking up?

Seriously. What in there is so hard to believe?

OP posts:
Badgerthebodger · 15/04/2018 20:38

Terfsup perhaps that wasn’t the kindest response. OP it sounds like you’ve had a very hard time of it, fear is often used as a tactic to keep women in their place. I hope you can find a way to distance yourself from someone so deliberately hurtful Flowers

Wilhamenawonka · 15/04/2018 20:41

That was a click baity title.

I'm scared of openly speaking up about all the important issues we face as women.

Trying to make the point that i won't be the only one and I'm not sure how we can fight that fear.
You only have to see how scared people are of supporting the gender critical stuff tp see how afraid women are.

I guess I'm saying that for some women the fear goes deeper and much more fundamental than that

OP posts:
Greymisty · 15/04/2018 20:43

OP your a single mum raising her kids well, to be loving, brave, confident and pay attention to injustice. How is that weak?

None of this read as a weak women.

DamnDeDoubtanceIsSpartacus · 15/04/2018 20:44

Oh sweetheart, this is how they keep us down.

So sorry you had to put up with this. Maybe do one brave thing each day, just one, see where courage takes you. Flowers

LassWiADelicateAir · 15/04/2018 20:45

I'm scared of openly speaking up about all the important issues we face as women

Of speaking up to whom and in what circumstances ? Your post refers to your father. Do you still live with him?

Wilhamenawonka · 15/04/2018 20:46

Badger it wasn't a kind response but it was an understandable one.
I see terf here a lot and she's so brave and also one of the ladies who has helped to open my eyes as part of the gender debate sono offense taken

The question is how to help people like me who want to get involved but are worried.
For example my parents pay for our food right now. I can't risk that.
It's a horrible trap (and one I'm desperately Trying to get out of)

OP posts:
SusanBunch · 15/04/2018 20:46

OP, my dad is also an open misogynist and was also violent to my mum in front of his kids. I support women’s rights 100% and the day I stopped giving a shit about what he thought, my life got infinitely easier. You’re your own person and you have a choice. Post what you like on Facebook- you know the reality and the truth. Why listen to what some bitter twisted old man thinks? Life surely is too short.

MorbidMuch · 15/04/2018 20:46

I'm so sorry for your experiences OP.

You are NOT weak.

It sounds like you have put up with relentless toxic words designed to make you feel worthless. You aren't.

I understand why standing up for women's rights in general is hard in your situation, because it is like imagining standing up to thousands of men like the angry one you've grown up with.

Do you need help to get some distance from him?

TheReluctantFundaFeminist · 15/04/2018 20:47

Its very brave of your to post OP x

Can I ask why you remain in contact with your Dad? I know it's not simple but he sounds like a truly vile vile person.

Why do you feel you need to seek his approval or opinion still? Absolutely not judging at all but just trying to see if there is a way you can distance yourself from him? Flowers

moofolk · 15/04/2018 20:49

This is why we need to stand up for women's rights. Because you're right. It's facing the wrath / anger / bemusement / frustration / disappointment of the men we know all the time and we have to show them it's not ok.

But that last hard. And tiring. And if you're in a relationship (romantic, familial or other) with an abusive or dismissive or a man who doesn't - won't- listen that is draining.

So keep on keeping on. We're all doing what we can. Get hell and support from any friends you can. Don't let the bastards grind you down. Thanks

Wilhamenawonka · 15/04/2018 20:52

Lass I'm not sure really.
Please try and understand that I'm shaking writing this because for me this is taking a stand and saying what i think for once (yes even an anonymous forum feels scary)

I think I'm saying that so many women are taught not to challenge, not to argue their point, to gain approval Is everything.
We're taught this by our parents who still have a huge hold over many people even in later life.

Pleasing our parents is fundamental to us as we grow. Not everyone can escape that conditioning for various reasons and if you're brought up with misogyny It's hard to fight against.

I'm struggling to explain myself really.
But i see lots of posts here about all sorts of things. Haven't seen anything about this aspect of why women doubt speak up for women's issues

OP posts:
MorbidMuch · 15/04/2018 20:53

X-post.

If you're worried about your parents finding out, then there are still ways you can help anonymously.

  • Sign petitions
  • Run an anonymous Twitter account to support / share / comment about what you want
  • Write to your MP
  • Have conversations with other women you have contact with (school gates? Baby groups?)
  • Get involved with a local women's group (doesn't have to be a feminist one)
  • Read books
concretesieve · 15/04/2018 20:57

I'm so sorry Flowers This isn't your fault - please don't ever think it is.

ReluctantCamper · 15/04/2018 20:57

Wilhamena, you sound so unhappy, I'm really sorry to hear it.

There isn't some weird feminist sisterhood that you're letting down in some obscure way, just a bunch of women trying to live their lives, same as you. Some of us are lucky enough not to be financially dependent on an arsehole, which means we have a bit more freedom to manoeuvre than you.

For heaven's sake my lovely, don't feel guilty that you're letting feminism down or something. concentrate on making life better for you and your kids right now.

Wilhamenawonka · 15/04/2018 20:58

Im bringing girls up and it scares me the world they're growing up in.
Their mum fell into every trap going
Gave up career - check
Married boychild - check
All the childcare - check
And a bunch more

I've only started setting it for what it issince discovering you lot two years ago so in feminist terms I'm still a baby.

That repeated quote about men hating us? Im really really seeing it but don't know what to do and like i said, am scared to say anything.

OP posts:
Wilhamenawonka · 15/04/2018 21:00

I'm not just talking about me though.
It's a place many women will find themselves in.
I really think this is one of the barriers and how do we get through it?

OP posts:
LassWiADelicateAir · 15/04/2018 21:01

*- Sign petitions

  • Run an anonymous Twitter account to support / share / comment about what you want
  • Write to your MP
  • Have conversations with other women you have contact with (school gates? Baby groups?)
  • Get involved with a local women's group (doesn't have to be a feminist one)
  • Read books*

Yes- agree. Those are all real life practical examples. I don't use Twitter or Facebook (and the more I read about both the less value I see in either)

There will be plenty of relevant campaigns on Change.Org or the official Govt petition site. They require a name but the names aren't visible and you can easily create a new gmail or outlook account if you don't want them emailing your main email address.

Katara · 15/04/2018 21:02

In my experience, the best thing you can do is stand up for your own rights.

Reading this board and understanding that women have rights is a really important step. You KNOW your father is wrong, and that he is a controlling bully. You are scared of his wrath because that is how he has raised you. I understand that, although in my case, it was my mother, followed by my husband. I was a people pleaser, and standing up for myself caused me so much anxiety. So, I believe you about being scared.

The fact that your father feeds your children means he retains control. The reason children fear their parents (if their parents are not kind or loving) is because they are dependent on them. If you are an adult, you do not need to be dependent. So, the first thing you need to do for women’s rights is learn to live independently. Have you spoken to anyone about support to do this? You need to cut the physical means by which he controls you, then you can start to think about the psychological ones.

If you have only just now stood up to your father, then it is unrealistic to suppose you will turn into a feminist warrior overnight, even if you wanted to. You need to be gentle on yourself, and work on your rights as a person first. It sounds like you need a good counsellor to help you realise where your strengths as a person are.

EasterRobin · 15/04/2018 21:10

Not everyone can support women's rights in the same way. Some can be loud and shouty and get attention. Some can help with legal or medical or parenting advice or financial support. Some can help the people they know through difficult times. Some can be willing to listen and say "I believe you". Some can be a role model to those who see them. Some can write to politicians and sign petitions. Some can encourage others.

If you care to, you will find your role that suits you at this time in your life and the world will be a slightly better place for it. And just by sharing this message, you are already helping to bring people together and broaden perspectives.

Wishing you a happier time ahead. Thanks