THIS is why i don't support womens rights

[Wilhamenawonka]

Deliberately goady thread title there but it's true and please be gentle because I'm in tears writing this.

I'm weak. So fucking weak.
It's not that I don't believe in everything that you talk about here. I'm a true convert and my contribution Is to try and bring my kids up to value themselves and each other and to see the inequalities and barriersthat are there.

But as for anything else i just can't. Simply writing this is causing me panic.

I was brought up by the most misogynistic man you can imagine. Jokes about domestic abuse, women/men are just like that, aggressive, you name it.
You didn't argue. It simply wasn't worth it.

I had value because i earned well. Now i don't and am a single mum and the disappointment is openly strong.

He's sick of feminists complaining and never doing anything.
He thinks that equality of sexes at work is wrong because it should just be the right person for the job.
His mother held the purse strings so financial abuse isn't really a thing.
Women abuse men too dontcha know. His mates were taken for everything in the divorce.
And when he can't ignore something any longer his answer is that he lives in a bubble and isn't part of the world any more, in other words he doesn't want to talk about it.
And on and on and on and on.
Relentlessly and forever.

After i told him about some horrendous stuff my friends had gone through he kept on making jokes about domestic abuse
(one friend had her head kicked in).

But last week, when i had told him that every woman i know has been assaulted, his answer was to say 'are you accusing me of abusing your mother?' (Said in his slow burning angry voice)
THAT was his response. All about him. All about him feeling atracked. Changing the narrative. Avoiding. Being aggressive.

I ended up screaming that every woman i know includes his own fucking daughter (me). And he finally listened. But for me it was too late.

But it's too hard. I've spent my whole life trying not to draw his disapproval because it's scary as fuck. I grew up with it. It's in my dna.

And I'm not the only one. You guys are so brave but this is a massive barrier feminism has too get through. Its not just internalized misogyny you have to fight but womens fear of drawing the wrath of the men they know.
What you're doing is SO important.

I'm too scared to even post a feminist type thing on fb on case he sees it. It's so deeply ingrained and i don't know if I'll every be free of the fear.

I won't be the only one.
And like i said THAT'S why l don't (openly) support you.
I'm sorry.

It was a roasting by anyfucker that started to show me the light.

womanformallyknownaswoman please can you post the details of the coercive control charity? And yes to the weight, it is exhausting to carry.

There is a book by someone called Evan Stark called ‘Coercive Control: how men entrap women in their personal lives’

He links the societal inequalities women have faced historically with the ways women are controlled now in their personal lives. While his examples involve battery, his point is that violence is only one aspect of control. It’s all the small things - how you dress, how you act, what you eat, when you sleep - which are got at through negative comments, manipulation, and various strategies the perpetrator knows work, because he knows you.

But it also relies on societal norms of how respectable women are expected to behave. So the two are interlinked.

It's like society negging women constantly

I started out twenty years ago, reading a book about assertiveness. It opened my eyes wide to just how much conditioning I was fighting. I read that everyone has a right to an opinion, and they have a right to express that opinion without being demeaned, even if it’s incorrect or doesn’t fit with the aims of the other person.

I hadn’t even realised before that that I had internalised the idea that some other people’s opinions (mainly my [male] superiors at work, who were bullying me) were worth more than mine.

Twenty years on and I’ve recently done another assertiveness course and I’m still learning. I’m out on Twitter and this morning I’m unhappy with things I said last night, but I have re-read them and I won’t delete them. Now I’m reminding myself that I can’t go back, but must learn from my experience and move on. I will probably take a break and regather before I go back into the debate.

One thing I did learn, right back at the start with that book, is just how hard it is to change the dynamic with a bully. I stood up to my bully just once. Then literally an hour later, I handed my notice in because I knew I wasn’t strong enough. It’s the only time in my life I’ve ever handed in my notice without lining up another job first, so it was quite a big deal for me.

I can’t tell you what to do about your dad. That has to be your choice. It’s hard to even imagine how stifling it must be to have grown up with that atmosphere. But my advice would be to take baby steps in a supportive environment. Asssertiveness builds. Small steps taking back control. Listen to your conscience and try to act. When you mess it up (and you will) it isn’t the end. Pick yourself up, give yourself the forgiveness you’d give to others and move on.

Join in when you’re ready. You’ve taken a first step by posting here. Despite your fear, you did it. Build on that and learn to be the version of you that you want to be.

Somehow i have to bring my girls up to not be afraid of being themselves in a society which doesn't like girls being themselves while I've been socialized to not be myself.
It's a huge trap.

Your post really resonates for me too, OP. I am lucky that my dad and partner are both good, gentle guys, but even so I do fear their disapproval. I fear being seen as a ranting, boring, humourless nag.

And I, too, have daughters. I must toughen up for them - they are little powerhouses and I don't want to turn them into me!

I will follow this thread for ways to get stronger.

Are you still with your DH?

You mention your father a lot but how supportive is your DH? Does he 'get you'?

Would going no contact with your parents be an option?

You talk about seeking approval from your parents - we have never encouraged our children (now grown up) to seek approval from us - ever.

Guidance - yes
Support and encouragement - yes
Advice even if we are old gimmers now - yes

Approval or validation - never ever

You seem to have had a bit of an awakening recently - I don't think however that you need to worry about 'joining the fight' so to speak. Concentrate on yourself for now.

Spend some time thinking about the person you really want to be, the life you want to live.

Identify the people in your life who would attempt to undermine or sabotage that and look at ways in which you can protect yourself from that toxicity so that you can breathe and move on.

@Katara it's www.coercivecontrol.co.uk

They seem to be running groups and so on.

There're on Twitter - they're hosting Evan Stark at their conference later in the year and yes I have read his book and am across his approach - he says coercive control should be treated as a liberty crime

OP I am only an occasional lurker on this topic so have nothing insightful to add on your greater point about internalising misogyny and the fear of speaking out.

What strikes me about your posts is that you seem to feel responsibility for things that aren’t yours to be responsible for. Your fathers views of the world are his and much as they are abhorrent - you are not responsible for changing them.

You are responsible for yourself and your children and it seems to me the best thing you could do for the feminist cause is work in ways of getting away from your mum and dad. You have prioritiesed safety for your children with a roof over their heads and food in their tummies and that is to be commended but I think if you could start to formulate a plan that would get you all out of their house and able to support yourself then that would be fantastic.

I dont mean to minimise the challenges you have and I don’t know your situation but I wish you all the best.

You have already achieved a great deal by posting here. By recognising you want things to be different for your daughters.

Yes, marches and media campaigns are important, but little everyday things are too. A signature on a petition, a supportive post to someone on a message board. A kind smile and a helping hand to the mum who has a toddler channeling the Tasmanian Devil at the checkout.

From little acorns mighty oaks will grow.