"Not All Men"

[MonsoonMama]

I'm quite fussy with my friendships and like to think I choose my friends wisely. So I was pretty horrified when I downloaded my personal phone contacts to my Twitter account this morning and it threw up 2 pretty unpalatable accounts, both clearly men - one using a pseudonym that was full of cock shots (his own), and the other an anonymous account that incessantly trolls people, mainly about Brexit but there's also some nasty misogynistic stuff in there too (e.g. rape only exists when it's a stranger in a dark alley and the woman is visibly hurt and can prove it; upskirting and harassment are normal everyday occurrences that silly women should suck up etc etc). So these 2 accounts belong to men I know and liked (I have only friends and the odd very trusted plumber/painter in my personal phone contacts). I'm really quite floored by this and it's really making me think that all men are the f@@**ing same, even the "nice" ones when they think you're not looking...

Wow that's a bit sex it's of you. I would derelict what all of your other make contacts (the ones who don't have misogynistic twitter accounts) would think if they new you were making judgements about them based on what some other men you apparently trusted did.

I love the NAMALT in the second post.

Poor you OP.

"like to think I choose my friends wisely.."

So it seems your a bit self-delusional, rather than "all men are bastards" ???

Sounds grim Monsoon.

Yep.

In my lefty circle of friends the amount of guys who have this amazing veneer of being all caring and right on, anti fascist, eco warrior types, but underneath are either abusive, misogynistic, rapey etc is huge.

I've sadly come to the realization that it is the vast majority of men.

And any bloke who thinks thats mean and sexist can fuck right off.
I don't care anymore.

When men stop groping/raping/harrasing/being creepy about women.
When they stop mentally, emotinally, financially and physically abusing countless women.
When they stop being the cause of 98% of all violence.
When they stop doing things like sharing unwanted dick pics, making rapey jokes, or cat calling young girls in school uniform.
When they stop hating us....

I will stop hating them.

I have a son, a male partner, and a father.
I love them dearly and in the case of Dad and DP, they are the least sexist men I know.
But every so often one of them comes out with something fairly light but still inherently sexist, and it hammers home how entrenched this attitude is.

I hope I can raise my son to be the best man he can be.

But if me and DP ever split up, I am never hooking up with another man.
I'm bi, so I'll just stick with women, thanks.

Yuk

Oh and if you, as a man, don't like being lumped in with all the nasty ones, then instead of hating on women for calling out the abuse, start taking it up with the vast swathes of men who do the abusing.

Start with banter.

Everytime somone makes a joke about rape, or trys to slap the arse of a passing woman, or makes a lewd comment about a woman......call them out.

If a bloke leans out of his car and cat calls a woman on the street, pill him up on it.

If you won't do even that, then you have zero right to complain when women assume it is all men.

What Lana said, with bells on.

If you won't do even that, then you have zero right to complain when women assume it is all men.

Yup.

I'm with Lana on this one!! I love my husband and sons...the rest I can't give a shit about. When they stop abusing women then maybe but not until then, nope!

Oh wow that's really unsettling.

I suppose lots of people have hidden views about things that others might find unpalatable or just weird or extreme... It's still a shock when you find this stuff out about people you know though.

I think with the sexism / misogyny thing a lot of men know what to say / not to say in front of women, but it's not how they feel. This is quite insidious - at work with the blokes I think it's all good and then one will accidentally slip up and show what he really thinks.. it's pushed it underground a bit. Insidious. This is why so many men say you "can't say anything any more" and "oh so I can't talk to women then" and "it's illegal to flirt" and all the rest of it, as they genuinely have to actively think about what they are saying and doing and as they don't really believe there is an issue they can't see where the line is...

Very depressing.

I'm not surprised. Think of all the women reporting harassment/rape/assault, not to mention the lower level crap like cat calling and dick pics...stands to reason most men are doing it. Even the ones who seem decent. And the ones who scream "not all men" the loudest are usually the ones doing it the most ime.

"Not all men, but yes all women"

Ie, not all men are harassers, but enough of them that yes pretty much all women have been harassed, or sexually assaulted in some way. The men who're going to do so don't wear badges to identify themselves. So if your (male) knee is jerking and you just can't wait to tell some woman that she's a bigot because not all men! Then that says something interesting about where your sympathies lie and what your priorities are.

"Not all men, but yes all women"

Ie, not all men are harassers, but enough of them that yes pretty much all women have been harassed, or sexually assaulted in some way.

Exactly. Maybe not all men, but at least one man everywhere women go.

Those are the self described "nice guys" that rarely turn out to meet minimum standards of decent human being. I am sorry these two got through your screening, but also too and besides I am glad for you that it is only two.

Eewww that's grim op
I agree with Lana. So many men think misogyny is normal. Totally depressing.

I'm pleased so many have read this and agreed with me!

It fucking is depressing, isn't it?

I spent years putting up with misogyny from lefty blokes, cos how could a bloke who stops foxes from being hurt, possibly deliberatley hurt/rape a woman??
It's weirdly disorientating being raped and abused by a guy who protects foxes and badgers at risk to his physical safety, but will happily punch an uppity woman in the face.

I have come across guys who will tie themselves to trees in the face of bulldozers, but have had a grand old time at festivals groping and raping drugged up women.

This is why "NAMALT" is so fucking disgusting to me.

How many times in high profile family annihilation cases have we heard "but he was such a pillar of the community/a good churchgoer/ a decent man"

Men do not come with I AM AN ABUSIVE FUCKWEASEL stamped n their forehead. And their supposed liberal politics does not make up for the fact that underneath, they still view women as decorative fuckholes, even if they love the pretty foxes.

Fuck knows why I put up with it, but I certain

Ooops, missed a bit!

Fuck knows why I put up with it, but I certain...ly don't any more.

I have lost many male friends of decades recently, cos I started calling them out on their shit.

But do you know what??

It's their fucking loss.

I won't subdue my opinions to please a man, ever, ever again.

Signed,

An angry RadFem.

Lana YY.

@LanaKanesTerfyVagina

Yep.
At the ripe old age of 55 I've met every version of man going.
Started by growing up with three brothers.
Joined the Royal Navy at 19 in 1981, eyes opened so wide they can never be closed.
30 years in the City in Investment Banking. Holy shit, what money buys for these men. I mean I've been in sex clubs in Moscow on business with them, just relaxing after work you know.

Boundaries. We need them.

Lana's 14.59 post nails it.

I have come across guys who will tie themselves to trees in the face of bulldozers, but have had a grand old time at festivals groping and raping drugged up women.

Ah, the "woke" lefty misogynistbro. Bane of my fucking existence (and probably yours too, if you've spent any time in leftist or activist spaces). Perfectly exemplified by PETAs "save the cows, exploit a woman instead" advertising.

So what are you thinking about these blokes OP are you going to let on that you know? I think I'd be pointing every woman I know to look at their accounts.

I'm new to Mumsnet (I joined mainly to educate myself more on the GRA which I stumbled across late last year when I started looking at feminism generally because of my own personal situation at home), so when I saw the first and third replies I felt a bit upset and wanted to delete my post and scuttle away. But glad now to see that others understand what I was getting at, although it's all a bit grim and depressing really and it makes me sad to read about other women's experiences and just how widespread and deep-seated misogyny is. But I admire the kick-ass attitude of the women who've replied, which I can hopefully learn from (instead of getting stupidly upset by a couple of replies!)

Moofolk (sorry, I don't yet know how to properly reply!) - I'm pretty sure I know who the cock shot guy is and he's now deleted from my phone (my friends and I haven't seen him for a while actually as there had been other (different) issues), but no idea who the second one is which is quite a worry, and not sure how to find out..?!