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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

"Not All Men"

60 replies

MonsoonMama · 06/04/2018 14:26

I'm quite fussy with my friendships and like to think I choose my friends wisely. So I was pretty horrified when I downloaded my personal phone contacts to my Twitter account this morning and it threw up 2 pretty unpalatable accounts, both clearly men - one using a pseudonym that was full of cock shots (his own), and the other an anonymous account that incessantly trolls people, mainly about Brexit but there's also some nasty misogynistic stuff in there too (e.g. rape only exists when it's a stranger in a dark alley and the woman is visibly hurt and can prove it; upskirting and harassment are normal everyday occurrences that silly women should suck up etc etc). So these 2 accounts belong to men I know and liked (I have only friends and the odd very trusted plumber/painter in my personal phone contacts). I'm really quite floored by this and it's really making me think that all men are the f@@**ing same, even the "nice" ones when they think you're not looking...

OP posts:
QuentinSummers · 06/04/2018 22:15

monsoon there are a lot of MRA trolls hanging out here, just bear that in mind if replies are upsetting you Wink

bluescreen · 06/04/2018 22:28

no idea who the second one is which is quite a worry, and not sure how to find out..?! Grin
Shock Shock Shock
Apologies for making light of it, but it really rocks you back, doesn't it. Could be anyone. They don't always have 'dick' stapled to their foreheads.

pallisers · 06/04/2018 22:31

So it seems your a bit self-delusional, rather than "all men are bastards" ???

You forgot to say "not all women are like that* It sounds like you think all women are delusional because you didn't say that.

Mouthtrousersafrocknowandthen · 06/04/2018 22:49

MonsoonMama
A kick ass attitude is the way to go. Fannying about will get us nowhere.

bluescreen · 07/04/2018 00:21

Flowers for you, MonsoonMama, because this is really shit, isn't it - and apologies if that didn't come across in my earlier post. It's horrible when we can't tell who's trustworthy.
Some (I hope most) men are genuinely decent human beings. But some know how to mime 'human' in company, and some blokes do it really well. It's not just blokes, though: geeks, nerds, jocks and right on left wing men can all conceal appalling misogynists and homophobes in their midst. It's horrible when it could be anyone.

Good men need to call this shit out when they see it. It's never 'routine for rugby', 'normal for netball'...

Onemorning · 07/04/2018 07:36

@Bluescreen thank you for the term 'miming human'.

Aristaeus76 · 07/04/2018 10:23

The issue I have with expecting men to call out other mens' behaviour if they're behaving in a sexist way towards a woman (and yes it can depend on the situation), is that it can arguably be seen as the man determining that the woman 'needs rescuing' from a situation that the man has decided is sexist, and an assumption that the woman can't deal with it herself.

MrPan · 07/04/2018 12:54

Yes it is not so cut and dried as posters wish to portray it here.

Calling out with a woman present CAN be viewed horribly patronising and undermining.

As a male here it is much more ffective to ask "really? Is that that your best way to behave?"

Anger and frustration at this shit is a sort of given. The best way isn't always the immediate.ifswim.

DeleteOrDecay · 07/04/2018 12:56

But every so often one of them comes out with something fairly light but still inherently sexist, and it hammers home how entrenched this attitude is.

I think it's really entrenched, I notice it everywhere, literally. I feel like it glosses over a lot of people because it's so normalised. Men now have to actually put some thought into how they interact with women now and they don't like it.

Welcome to our world is all I will say to that.

MrPan · 07/04/2018 12:58

And of course being lefty man means bugger all in effect. It's what you say and do that makes a difference.

KittTheCar · 07/04/2018 13:47

I've been in situations where it would have been great to have a bloke step in. They don't though - usually.

I find that when men are out of order I get very tongue tied, my voice goes kind of high and squeaky and I struggle to articulate what is a problem. And when I try it comes across as being very high pitched and whiny and emotional.

Having other women step in as well would also be awesome.

But the not stepping in ranges from a man saying something crass to being really agressive and even to assaulting you - we seem to see this (as a society) as the individual woman's problem that she should deal with herself. I don't know why that is. It starts so young as well - we learn that it's "our problem" from so young.

I know there are women who are able to remain calm and deal with stuff but we're not all like that!

QuentinSummers · 07/04/2018 13:48

I would prefer calling out to happen when it's just men. I suspect (although don't know obviously) that's when a lot of laddish behaviour happens and it dismissed as "banter".
I know many men just avoid those convos but it would be good if they could challenge rather than keep quiet.

LastGirlOnTheLeft · 07/04/2018 13:48

I would challenge sexist behaviour from men, not because I think the woman needs rescuing but because the behaviour is wrong, disgusting and deserves to be called out by everyone who witnesses it. In fact I have called it out - the man was reduced to tears!! 😮😮😮 I definitely didn't expect that!

endchauvinism · 07/04/2018 14:14

I'm kinda new here but want to jump in. I don't see it as "rescuing" for men to help out. We need as many voices on our side as we can get and there aren't enough. And I agree that as long as men are silent about sexism, they can't complain when women start to see all men the same way.

DeleteOrDecay · 07/04/2018 15:43

This thread reminded me of a thread I saw on reddit recently. The op 'saves' a teenage girl from a creepy man in the swimwear section of a shop. Thought it might be good to share.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/88oobr/ididdthereddittthingtodayysavedaayoung_girl/?st=JFPHLT77&sh=1cec067d

Vicky1990 · 07/04/2018 15:59

What is MRA.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 07/04/2018 16:08

I don't understand the rescuing comments

So for example a male has a male friend who posts sexist memes on facebook or rape jokes or something

And said male is afraid to call his friend out in case a woman gets annoyed and thinks they are 'rescuing' women

Is that right...

So nothing to do with him not wanting to annoy his friend...just he is worrying about annoying a random woman

Or is it more in a conversation with a woman?

RunRabbitRunRabbit · 07/04/2018 16:26

If I'm in a conversation down the pub with my mates and one says something sexist to me then my DH won't step in to put the bloke down and rescue me. He knows I will do that perfectly well myself. I would be annoyed if he stepped in denying me the opportunity. He would back me up (as would others usually).

If the remark were directed at another woman he would hesitate to see what she would do and also wondering whether he would piss her off by intervening. By the time he makes a decision the moment may have passed. I can see how it is difficult for nice men.

Aristaeus76 · 07/04/2018 16:54

Rufus, re the rescuing comment I made, I did say it depends on the situation. If I see a guy in a busy bar being a sexist pig towards a woman, unwanted chatting up or whatever, perhaps she doesn't want to make a scene or have the situation escalated, or maybe she feels able to deal with it herself. It's pretty patronising for a man to assume that the woman needs or wants a man to butt in and get involved.

Like I say, each situation is different and if it's clear that the woman is scared or is looking round for help, then clearly that is different.

Xenophile · 07/04/2018 17:35

What is MRA

What they think they are: A group of men who fight for men's rights because women have everything on a plate.

What they actually are: A bunch of violently angry men who hate women far more than they like any men and who believe that activism is screaming at women online about how no one cares about men's issues while doing precisely nothing to help men facing those issues. The crossover between MRAs and rape apologists and neo-nazis is strong.

Xenophile · 07/04/2018 17:39

And Lana

Nail on fucking head.

BrendasUmbrella · 07/04/2018 20:42

there are a lot of MRA trolls hanging out here, just bear that in mind if replies are upsetting you

Yep. I've said it several times before, I used to be a mod on a popular general discussion forum, and it was very interesting to see how often an email address with a male name in it accompanied a female username. Many of them seemed to enjoy gaslighting posts by women, especially anything in reference to men. I can only assume they thought they were providing some kind of service to their fellow men by telling their partners to accept bad/abusive behaviour... I suspect a lot of them may hang around AIBU given how often the first few responses to threads are often unhelpful and rude.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 07/04/2018 20:44

Thank you aristaeus

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 07/04/2018 20:47

Although i was referring more to comments between freinds or on social media

Not so much in a live action situation

So if during coffee a friend makes a racist remark I definitely pull her up on it...if it was a group of strangers in a coffe shop it would probably be a different approach as you say...depending on this situation

Juells · 07/04/2018 20:57

Absolutely agree with OP. There came a point in my life when I really wished I was lesbian :(

is that it can arguably be seen as the man determining that the woman 'needs rescuing' from a situation that the man has decided is sexist, and an assumption that the woman can't deal with it herself.

Sorry for lowering the tone of the thread, but I did get a belly laugh a few nights ago, watching Jack Dee. He made a 'women have no sense of direction' type joke (obviously as a set-up for a plant to boo) and some man booed, he said "that's what I call a blow-job boo". Well...it was funny when he told it.