J Rees Mogg

[Mumsnut]

In The Times today:

He is uneasy about some aspects of the transgender rights debate.

‘If you have people who have no intention of changing sex but think it would be fun to go into the women’s changing room, we cannot ignore that.’

Bore off DullAndOld, no one cares that you think her arguing is "sloppy".

I couldn't find reference to this in The Times but there is brief mention towards the end of this article in the DM:
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5565727/Has-Jacob-Rees-Moggs-Nanny-let-slip-secrety-set-sights-No-10.html

Bloody hell, I've really bothered you, haven't I?

Your point seems to be that nobody could hazard a guess at the motivations of a public figure based on what they say in public, so I'm wondering on what you base your agreement with his principles? Unless you've met him?

Weird way to play it, but knock yourself out!

I for one care that someone's arguments are sloppy and agree with Dull.
The reason JRM has such a following is because his arguments are never sloppy - always concise, clear and argued from the heart. So whether you agree with him or not, he is always worth listening to.

Someone asked where JRM's opinion is coming from, pointing out that it is not going to be from a feminist worldview.

I would like to posit a guess.

I don't think he's being particularly ideological or controversial in terms of the worldview he expresses. He's simply pointing out the bleedin' obvious: that self-ID would give an in to men who think it would be fun to go into a woman's changing room.

You do not have to be a radical feminist to believe that. You do not have to be a christian fundamentalist, or a raging fascist or an idelogical materialist marxist.

You just have to be a very ordinary person with a modicum of knowledge about biology and the way men behave around women.

Outside of the internet, it really isn't a big deal to believe this, it's what nearly everyone believes.

So I think he's just being commonsense, not particularly ideological at all.

Oh it's a strange old world at the moment.

One minute I'm a lefty Remoaner, SJW, bleeding heart liberal, virtual signalling champagne socialist. Whilst also being a fairly ordinary married mum of 3 of course.

The next minute, I'm getting in to bed (so to speak) with Ken Clarke, David TC Davies, and now Jacob Rees Mogg.

The far-left "no-debaters" "no-platformers" are going to have to be very careful here - they did not come out looking good when they disrupted JRM speaking at a University. They looked like people who couldn't form an argument.

And JRM can certainly form a coherent argument. I usually emphatically disagree with him. But on this occasion, when he says "‘If you have people who have no intention of changing sex but think it would be fun to go into the women’s changing room, we cannot ignore that.’ I emphatically agree with him, and I thank him for saying it.

"he believes that the drive to eradicate sex segregation is troubling because women and girls are to be protected (because of notions of property and propriety)"

I think he is anti abortion?

Usually, religious people who are anti-abortion believe that women must be cherished and protected by the men they belong to.

That's my guess anyway.

The fact that someone assumes there is an unspoken background to what JRM has said instead of taking it at face value and exactly as he has expressed it just implies that they are prejudging him.

He has been very clear that he personally does not believe he has the right to judge anyone.
And he never said that changing nappies was "woman's work". Maybe he and his wife organised their lives in the way that suited them best? Why is it anyone's business to criticise them for that? (Just to note, I didn't do all the nappy changing in this house, I do always stand up for women's rights, and I'm a woman).

Once again this may come in handy...

I don't like anyone who would force me to go through with an unwanted pregnancy tbh.

I think you're right, Thanks. I don't think he's transformed into a Radfem overnight

But we need MPs to speak out and take action against Self ID and amendments to the GRA, to protect the rights and dignity of women and their sex-segregated spaces.

I will listen to the quoted sentence and wholeheartedly agree and be glad that he is using his public status to raise this important issue. Still wholeheartedly disagree on pretty much everything else he says but defend to the death his right to say it. Free speech, innit.

Neither do I

But he is clear that they are his personal not political beliefs

But he is clear that they are his personal not political beliefs

Yes he is. His political views are traditional Conservatism, his personal beliefs are all based around Christian teaching.

terrys Venn diagram is indeed useful. A conservative with 6 kids understands what sex is. Most MNers (it's primarily a site for parents),regardless of their political persuasion, understand what sex is. On this, if nothing else, we may intersect with JRM.

And as a bloke who went to a boys school, he may well know more about the existence of men who might get kicks out of going into women's changing rooms than I do.

He's a nasty piece of work. Stands to benefit personally from Brexit and throwing the population under the bus to get hard Brexit. Going all out for the leadership. In bed with American extreme right. Do not support him.

I don't think he's being particularly ideological or controversial in terms of the worldview he expresses. He's simply pointing out the bleedin' obvious: that self-ID would give an in to men who think it would be fun to go into a woman's changing room.

This. JRM is no feminist, he doesn't particularly care about women's rights, or the rights of anyone who isn't a wealthy white man, as his voting record shows.

But, the one thing I do like about Rees Mogg is that he doesn't give a fuck if his views are 'woke' and he doesn't worry about whether he is seen as a 'bigot'. He says what he actually thinks. And he thinks that self id is a fucking stupid idea.

And on that I agree with him.

"he believes that the drive to eradicate sex segregation is troubling because women and girls are to be protected (because of notions of property and propriety)"

It doesn't have to be anything to do with 'property'. If a man wants to protect his wife, mother and daughters from men who would do them harm, how is that different from a woman wanting to protect herself, her mother and daughters from men who would do them harm?

if we're going to win over enough people to stop self-id, we'll need to have more men on board whose motivation is protection of their female relatives.

But no, I won't be rushing out to applaud him or anything.

Pffft. The whole idea of self-ID is so obviously nonsensical and dangerous that at some point, hopefully in the not too distant future, there will only be the relatively tiny group of TRA saying it's a good idea and we will then apparently be 'siding' with completely everyone else.

I bet we'll still get 'ooh you agreed with a tory, you're bad'.

Meghan Murphy was good on this on WLRN.

I agree with Jacob Rees Mogg

pressed enter too soon....

.... and I wish other male and female MPs and MSPs from all party's would think a bit more like him. But as pp said 'ooooh JRM = Tory = Baaaad'.

Well that's him and David Davies went out on a limb so maybe they aren't all that bad. Still waiting on anyone from Labour, SNP, Green or Lib Dem to be so brave.

He's a nasty piece of work. Stands to benefit personally from Brexit and throwing the population under the bus to get hard Brexit. Going all out for the leadership. In bed with American extreme right. Do not support him.

If I only voted for someone I agreed with on every single issue, I'd never vote. I agree with him that self-id is a bad idea. That doesn't mean I have to agree with him on anything else.

"Do not support him"

I'll support whoever I like on whatever I like.

I will not support him on his nappy changing views or his abortion views or brexit.

I will support him on self ID and on freedom of speech.

I am so sick of purity politics. They are the reason the right controls everything.