Eddie Flipping Izzard

[ReluctantCamper]

excerpt from his autobiography in which Eddie recounts:

1. using the ladies loo to get changed, because why not. I mean he sometimes wears nail varnish so what woman on earth would object to having a poo or inserting a tampon with Eddie in the next cubical

2. shouting at some teenaged girls who objected to his presence. This is totes empowering and women could definitely use this tactic when we're shouted at by men in the street and it wouldn't end with us getting beaten up.

You go Eddie. You're a fucking inspiration.

I was a goth I’ve been taunted in the street many times about the way I dress, and I would bet my last penny he’s been harassed by more men than women. Why isn’t he talking about that? Why is this the story he’s telling now?

Because it fits the narrative that the real violence comes from the women not moving over and not the men who land the punches.

I remember thinking it was gross and not using the changing room (it was empty apart from the transvestite).

You didn't challenge him but you did curtail your own behaviour to avoid being in his presence. You might not have felt overtly threatened but you sure didn't want to be alone and in a state of undress either. Don't you think that is telling?

I don't think following someone and shouting insults is appropriate behaviour but I also don't think females having to adapt their behaviour in an attempt to avoid the presence of a male in a space he shouldn't be in is all that "appropriate" either. I'd rather these men were challenged than not (although it clearly made zero impact on Izzards sense of entitlement).

DickTERFin - your post is probably the one I can most get on board with. I do find the term 'male lesbian' really yucky.

But maybe it's worth making those points to him? Is he on Twitter etc?

He has always come across as a reasonably nice guy from his comedy and as much as I've been aware of him outside that - I admit to being initially biased in his favour for two reasons, 1) because he's been an outspoken pro-European, doing lots of comedy in other European languages (or franglaisfied version of them) and 2) Corbyn's cronies hate him, which makes me look upon him as a decent sort.

At the moment my view is 1) I'm suspicious that this thread on the very day he snatches a seat on the NEC from one of Corbyn's bezzie mates may have rather more to do with that than to do with anything Izzard has ever done that may or may not be misogynistic. And 2) I don't think it's fair to complain that he is too self-centred in his autobiography - of course he's going to frame his experiences around defining moments for him as a cross-dresser, because it's obviously a central part of his identity. He wasn't writing a handbook on male/female relations.

I'm more interested in how he actually behaves towards real women now and whether he is misogynistic, and I don't find the fact that he once used a ladies loo and that he was negative about some teenage girls who chased him yelling insults is very clear proof that he is misogynistic.

I'd probably rather the NEC was staffed by decent, ordinary people rather than celebrities or union bosses, to be frank, but out of what we're being offered at the moment, I think there's far worse, frankly, to be angsting over.

In a week in which I've been confronted by the most horrendous, distressing anti-Semitism on social media from the left, I'm finding it quite hard to work up enthusiasm to hate someone because they once went in a ladies loo at a time they thought there'd be no-one there.

TVs feel sexy when dressed. They like going out in public because the risk associated (from MEN) is exhilarating. Everybody knew this before transgenderism became a religion and the penis owners under the trans umbrella were given unassailable high priest status.

(I think Grayson Perry is the only dresser left who has the balls to speak plainly and honestly about this.)

It's one thing to walk down the High Street dressed because you enjoy it. It's quite another to invade women's private spaces. And one would hope all women could agree that a girl's first experience of a non-family adult man in her private space would be because a) she is of age and b) she CONSENTED. Certainly not because a dresser decided to override consent and invade. incorrigiblyplural - shame on you for your girl-blaming posts in this thread.

Teacuphiccup - " I would bet my last penny he’s been harassed by more men than women. Why isn’t he talking about that? Why is this the story he’s telling now? "

Have you read the whole book? Maybe he also makes that point elsewhere?

I don't know. The fact that he is mildly negative about these particular girls on this particular occasion sounds quite justified to me - and can't be extrapolated to prove that he is always negative about all girls/women on all occasions. And even more cannot be extrapolated as proof that he never, ever criticises male homophobes. I'm pretty sure I've head him do just that previously.

I think you should definitely tweet and him and say you object to the idea of lesbians having a penis plural, see what response you get.

I hope you don’t mind being told to die in a fire or threatened with rape or told you should be fired.

LangCleg - how dare you? Nowhere have I posted "girl-blaming posts"?

That is incredibly offensive.

I criticised 3 specific girls for chasing someone down the street and mocking their clothing.

I am astonished that you think that is acceptable behaviour. Or do you think it's somehow acceptable behaviour for girls, but not for boys, say?

What twaddle.

Teacuphiccup - well, if he actually does respond like that then he deserves all the hate in this thread.

But do you have any actual evidence hat he would respond in anything like that way?

And if not, why are you blackening his name by suggesting that he does?

He wouldn’t but his tra mates would, and those are the people he’s dog whistling with these comments.
He’s moving into politics he’s not stupid he knows the context in which he’s telling these stories, he is aware of the landscape.
And if he is a cross dresser in politics who doesnt know of it then he can’t really have his finger on the pulse.

Check out TERFisaslur.com for what happens to women when they object to the idea that lesbians have a penis.

And 2) I don't think it's fair to complain that he is too self-centred in his autobiography - of course he's going to frame his experiences around defining moments for him as a cross-dresser, because it's obviously a central part of his identity. He wasn't writing a handbook on male/female relations.

No he isn't, but the framing of the story is what is telling of his attitude. It speaks to his inability to see the incident from any other perspective than his own. The point isn't really that he felt entitled to enter a female space then, it's that he still does decades later.

His "defining moments as a cross dresser" in this instance was the realisation that womens boundaries are an oppressive obstacle that even he, an effeminate man, could overcome.

DickTERFin - again, you're the most rational critic here.

I agree with you that I was cross at not being able to use the changing room. And that was wrong.

But I'd like to hope that if that point was made to Izzard he could happily acknowledge that now.

Maybe he wouldn't, in which case all your points above stand.

But I'd rather give him the benefit of he doubt, because a) it's wrong to condemn people on what appears to be pretty slim/no evidence and b) the alternative to Izzard is so much bloody worse. :(

Teahiccup - he's not 'moving into politics' - he's been in politics for 27 years.

And I'm not prepared to pre-judge one trans person on what some other completely different trans people do.

He doesn't hold collective responsible for what all trans people do, you know.

I would be genuinely interested to hear him explain how he went from his previous stance of They’re not women’s clothes. They’re my clothes. I bought them. to the idea of having ‘girl days’ and ‘boy days.’

Because it’s quite a leap. The former is quite admirable gender non conformity. The latter is skirting (sorry, no pun intended) with the TRA ideology. It’s a huge ideological leap.

Is izzard identifying as a woman now? How does that reconcile with what I’d previously heard him say about clothing which is that of a man is wearing it, it’s mens clothes.

I wonder if he’s reading this thread. I would be very interested to hear how he would answer that.

It also seems to link to what people were discussing on a previous thread about ‘female’ clothing/makeup on heterosexual men being vastly more accepted back in the 90s, (the cure, lo sin etc) and pondering how that turned into ‘no you can’t wear eyeliner, you must be a girl.’ Because I genuinely thought twenty years back we were cracking the gender shit and evolving as a species. Apparently not.

Well then he should be very aware of the landscape of which he’s making his comments then.
He’s either a shit politician or he’s dog whistling the TRA’s.

No you can’t judge one trans person on what other trans people do, but he’s baiting them and showing his cards without saying outright.

DickTERFin - our last posts crossed, so this is my reply to your most recent post.

I do think reading what he wrote as "the realisation that womens boundaries are an oppressive obstacle that even he, an effeminate man, could overcome" is a step too far, sorry.

I think that's just reading way too much into a story that really doesn't merit it.

He was just trying to use an empty loo!

Lo sin? Cobain.. kurt cobain.

Interesting points, Hypermice.

It's sad, isn't it.

Although with the youngest generation eg my DS (11), there is quite a lot of awareness that gender conformity is not required to be a boy/girl. He insisted on pink roses on his last birthday cake and is very definitely 100% boy. None of his friends commented on it at all. He's commented that he wants to be able to like stuff like art or dance precisely because he doesn't want to be put in a box that says 'boys like this, girls like that'. Much more Robert Webb than TRA.

So the outlook is not all bad. :)

That’s positive incorrigably !

I havent read the izzard biography so it’s hard to comment on that but I’ve been disappointed with his recent pronouncements about boy days and girl days.
To my knowledge I haven’t heard him set out his stall on where he stands on all this. I hope he can listen to and take on board some of the points made on boards like this. It’s inportant stuff and I would have hoped someone with a modicum of intelligence would be aware of the feminist angle.

I reckon Labour won't be welcoming this. Izzard finally nabbing a spot on the NEC I mean.

More fuel to the transgender fire that they have been frantically trying to put out over the last few months.

Be interesting to see if Izzard shuts his gob about transgender issues and concentrates on trying to work together to defeat the Tories which is what he has been preaching to everyone else.

He will be the most senior transgender member in the party (and well known to the general public) and it will be interesting to see how he navigates that. I'm guessing that the most vocal TRAs will be on his back constantly accusing him of not doing enough to further their cause. A very fine line he has to tread.

Who knows? Maybe he'll do a decent job of it.

incorrigiblyplural I hear you but I do think there is "evidence". He is recounting that story contemporaneously, through the lens of a middle aged man not as his twenty year old self.

Right now, he believes that 13 year old girls are an oppressive force against 23 year old cross-dressers and he is patting himself on the back for standing up against that oppression. Right now, he cannot see that their intimidation of him was directly as a result of his intimidation of them and that ultimately he had the power in that relationship, even if he was unaware of it as his 23 year old self.

Self absorption and self reflection are not the same thing and Izzard is as self absorbed as they come.

I get that the current political choice is almost universally about trying to pick the lesser of two evils, in all quarters, but I done with it. I won't hang my hat on someone just because they promise to lube up before sticking it to me (or others).

Have you seen the latest from Sandy Draws Badly?

Question - why would it be difficult for me to insert a tampon in a cubicle next to a bloke?

answer - I just don't want to. And I don't have to tell you why or justify myself. I don't want to be in a toilet cubical that is open at the top and bottom next to a strange man and be inserting a tampon. The end

Newsflash - women are currently allowed to have boundaries

and I'm still mystified by incorrigiblyplural stance that it's not OK to criticise Eddie Izzard because there are anti-semites in the Labour party. At least that seems to be the reasoning.

Well, maybe it's just me

But the tampon wrapper makes a tearing sound as I open it. The sanitary bin lid clangs. The toilet roll holder squeals as I pull out loads to wrap.

Actually, I know it's not just me. And I'm a grizzled old timer. Teen girls deserve privacy, and so do I.

Great satire from SDB - Eddie Izzard is in the political arena now and it's not the same as being a celeb. He will have to plant his flag in the ground at some point - is he with the TRAs and LM or is he a bloke in a dress. Both femininists (who seem to be leaving labour at a great rate) or TRAs (who are joining labour at a great rate); will want to know.
For what it's worth, bearing in my mind there are more feminists than there are TRAs and peak trans is trending everywhere. The sensible political option would be to side with the feminists, but TRAs seem to be the Trendy Right-On cause of the moment, so he could use that for political capital.
I have no doubt EI is a fetish dresser, women should be taught to trust their instincts when it comes to dodgy men, they are sadly rarely wrong.