Thoughts on #suemepaddy ?

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Another very disturbing development post trial ...

"Ulster and Ireland rugby player Paddy Jackson has said he intends to sue Labour Senator Aodhán Ó Riordáin for defamation after the politician sent a tweet in the wake of the Belfast rape trial verdicts."

www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/paddy-jackson-s-lawyers-say-he-intends-to-sue-aodh%C3%A1n-%C3%B3-riord%C3%A1in-over-tweet-1.3445578

You'll easily find a copy of the original tweet that caused offense.... can't believe he'd do that. I'm thinking I should sign up for twitter and post with#suemepaddy

I don't know ROI law but in English law, and I think it's similar in NI, the answer is no, not necessarily. Fair comment, ie showing that it's a belief a reasonable person could have held, is a defence.

O'Riordan would only have to show on the balance of probabilities that him believing her is a belief a reasonable person could have held. This is why, if I were Paddy Jackson, I would not be issuing proceedings here. Because there's a big distinction between a court finding that you're not guilty beyond reasonable doubt and a court finding that something is more likely than not.

Why do men in the public eye show such a complete lack of self awareness after being involved in cases like this?

Paddy lad, you won your case, you tore the poor woman to shreds in the process, you must be so proud, bigman. Now sit down and shut the fuck up.

@PaulDacreRimsGeese

He had it on his twitter a couple of years back. Caused a bit of a kerfuffle and was taken down.

Boys will be boys, eh?

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/ulster-rugby-players-wear-black-makeup-in-ethiopian-photo-paddy-jackson-dressed-as-slave-30424197.html

Dear god, that article is awful to read Maryz.

Yet another reason not to bother reporting a rape. Can't even enter the court room to fight your case without being hounded by rape apologists.

The human race disgusts me sometimes.

I must say, I think Olding's reaction of "I don't believe I did anything illegal but I regret my acts and my attitude and I hope the girl is ok" is a much better reaction after something like this.

Whether Jackson admits it or not he physically hurt a teenager and talked about women in an appalling way. He should be apologising for that, at a minimum. Instead of trying to force everyone to believe he's a nice guy

Olding's response is definitely preferable to Paddy's "I'm a nice guy, honest!" Spiel.

I find that the ones who cry about being a 'nice guy' usually aren't that nice....

Is saying you believe the defendant libel?

Not my field but I don't see how it can be. He was found not guilty, not innocent.

Olding seemed to grasp the idea that it was possible for the woman and him to have different and genuine beliefs about what happened.

If I were Olding's parents/agent/ legal team I'd be advising him to keep his head down and a wide distance from Jackson.

I also sort of hope Jackson tries to sue someone and hopefully a big person who has the pockets, confidence and ability to defend it.

It really makes you wonder who the hell is advising these men. Surely if you were their solicitor/parent/friend you would be advising them to keep their heads down. Given, you know, the people marching in the street!!

O'Riordan would only have to show on the balance of probabilities that him believing her is a belief a reasonable person could have held.

Gotcha. Thank you - Sounds fair. In that case, crack on and sue, lad. Bring it on.

Another question if you’d be so kind (I’m a scientist my legal knowledge is zero..)

IFbhebdoes take it to court to sue, isvthat a civil proceeding? If the court rules that this IS a belief a reasonable person could have had does that open up any way for the victim to seek restitution? I seem to remember the OJ case (yes yes I know America totally different) him being found guilty in the civil court on balance of probabilities and being sued for damages? Is that a thing that could happen here?

Agree Maryz.

I can understand that they were found not guilty of the charge of rape.

However, the content of the messages are awful. I shudder at the idea of any man speaking about my daughter in that way.

I actually have more respect today for Olding than I did during the trial. I have spoken to my son about this case- when I read Olding's reaction, I did say that I admired the guts to come out and say that, instead of grandstanding.
If both of them had stood outside the court and given that message, I think it would have taken some of the sting out of the result.

At this stage, Olding is being tainted by association with Jackson.

Paddy Jackson is sliding even further down in my estimation and I cannot ever see him playing for Ireland again.
That won't be due to a "false accusation"- it will be due to the way he has proven with his own words and actions, that he is a boor and no role model for anyone.
His own career thrown away with his own hands.

I can only speak for Scots law but defamation is a civil action for damages. It reverses the burden of proof in that it is in all other cases a pursuer who has to prove his case but here the defender has to prove his defence of veritas. (Ie what was said is true)

So again this is English law not NI law, they're not exactly the same though similar. That said, I don't know which jurisdiction Jackson would choose to sue in. He could sue in England, because I'm in England and I've read the tweet. He might be planning on multiple jurisdictions please Santa!

This is not my field either, but there have been a couple of examples in the UK of victims/family members bringing civil cases against people when the criminal case had failed. The one against the Omagh bombers is the best known probably (they fucking did it and they can sue me if they like) and the victims and their families were successful. I think it's usually a tort law thing, as that can encompass physical harm.

The tests would be different though. The test in a defamation case is whether it's defamatory, on the balance of probabilities. Btw the defence is now honest opinion, it's a while since I was at law school so the terminology on my last post was wrong! Though generally the law change has made it harder for those bringing cases to succeed. Whereas the test in a tort case would I guess be whether on the balance of probabilities the person caused the harm. I guess it's possible the court could say something useful in judgement in a defamation case that could then be used in a different tort case where the victim was trying to prove harm caused by Jackson, I don't know if it's ever happened.

I've heard Olding's family have not been as supportive as Jackson's. Perhaps that's had an impact and made him reflect critically on his actions or he's trying to prove something to them. If Jackson's lot are blowing smoke up his ass and encouraging him with these threats to sue people they're doing him no favours. Quite the opposite in fact.

Omagh bombing civil case. Can't find the judgement so news article will have to do.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/northernireland/5476676/Omagh-bombing-judgment-relatives-win-landmark-civil-case.html

Note that those responsible for the Omagh bombing, whatever else there is to say about them, weren't stupid enough to sue anyone for defamation.

YY craic, if Jackson were a loved one of mine I'd have told him to lay low and think very hard for a few days about whether he wants to pursue this civil action or not. Maybe they did, I don't know, but if they didn't then they're not helping him.

Were I his solicitor, I would be writing very clear and detailed file notes stating that I had discussed the potential disadvantages with him.

Thank you.

I do hope he sues then.

I think he was up for a celebration and some positive press coverage.
Apparently he stepped from the court with a renewed sense of pride

His Twitter is now protected though

"Afters in mine for whoever dares"

That is so grim. What a prize.

I think Olding's family have been supportive of him as a person, but unsupportive of what he did

So they have been in court, apparently, but have entered separately and supported behind the scenes. They have not arrived with him, and they haven't stood with him and his legal team for the courtroom photographs. Whereas Jackson's family and legal team have been confrontational from the start - I think they believe that if they shout loud enough all his pre-trial supporters will shout with him.

I think Olding and his family have taken the right approach, and I think there may well come a time when he openly rejects Jackson's way of dealing with this - and if that comes I will have much more time for him.

I'd donate to a crowdfunding for this too.

Massive massive respect for the senator and I wish I was on twitter so I could tweet him support.

There is a crowd finder to put an advert in the paper to ask Irish Rugby and Ulster Rugby not to bring him back.
I’ve donated to it.
www.gofundme.com/noplaceonarugbyfield?utm_source=internal&utm_medium=email&utm_content=campaign_title&utm_campaign=donation_receiptv5

“For whoever dares”

That’s so fucking goady!!! He’s taunting the woman. He’s publicly taunting her and mocking her. Can this scrote sink any lower?