Ulster Rugby Rape Trial - Not guilty to all charges

[Quimby]

Verdict just returned
Not guilty to all four accused, all unanimous decisions.

[treaclesoda]

I'm in Belfast. I'd go to a rally. There were rumours an hour ago that women were marching in groups to Laganside courthouse but I don't know if it's true.

[mikado1]

It seems to be alright, it's on FB. The speed and the unanimous vote is hard to fathom really.

[Springsnake]

That would be.....wow I had no idea...I just saw 9 men and thought it's a done deal ,not guilty.surely it would be fairer to have jury's half male half female thou

[Passthefuckingprosecco]

I lost hope when her injuries were discredited - when they could be part of normal sex, then when the video was analysed by the defense expert witness. Such fucking low moments to be a woman.

I feel dreadfully sorry for the young woman.

[Theswaggyotter]

I feel sickened by this verdict. The system is not fit for purpose, and women are being betrayed time and again. No justice whatsoever.
I hope she can opt for a civil prosecution as has happened in other high profile cases involving famous sportsmen

[Springsnake]

So the male jury all got to see a film of her vulva? Did I read that correctly? ...no woman on earth would consent to that IF she wasn't telling the truth...god I fucking hate men sometimes ..who's idea was it to film it...the whole thing makes me feel sick.like women's rights never existed

[GiveMyHeadPeaceffs]

The team I work in were out for lunch when the verdicts came in. Frankly the responses from the women were shocking and their comments about the alleged victim were horrendous. Thing that shocks me is that the most vocal and most damning of the victim are mothers to girls. What message is that sending out to young women?

Also the women in my team are actually hoping the alleged victim is named and shamed and hopefully sued for loss of earnings. One even suggested that she hoped the girl was "really raped" and then she'd maybe think twice about "telling lies and wasting everyones time and money". I'm in Belfast...they decided to go down to the courts to "pat those poor fellas on the back after what they've been through".

I am fucking disgusted by what these women said, disgusted.

[sashh]

I'm beginning to think women would be better off suing for damages in a civil court.


Tweet c and P

Solidarity rallies to say #IBelieveHer tomorrow at half 12:

Belfast Courthouse
Dublin, the Spire
Limerick, Bedford Row

Please RT.

[Passthefuckingprosecco]

Wow GiveMyHeadPeace that's awful

[Maryz]

I reckon the jury made a decision in keeping with the law as laid out by the judge. In summary she told them (summarised in Conor Gallagher's twitter feed):

To convict Jackson/Olding of rape/oral rape jurors must be sure of three elements (Doubt over any means acquittal):
▪️That penetration occurred, however slight
▪️That the woman did not consent
▪️That the men did not reasonably believe she consented"

The last sentence is the key thing and is why the law is an ass - it's to do with whether the men thought she had consented - I bet they fucking did. They assumed; they thought there was no need to actually ask, it never occurred to them that she might want to refuse them

They didn't at the time, and they never will, think they did anything wrong.

[DioneTheDiabolist]

Thanks for that sashh.

[JaneJeffer]

When the case started DH commented on the amount of men on the jury and that it would go against the victim. I asked him if he did not trust men to reach a correct verdict. Well obviously he was right and we can't.

I expect this will get deleted too.

[ZibbidooZibbidooZibbidoo]

I expected this verdict. I have no faith in our justice system. None at all. I never reported my rape and I never will. For this every reason. Those men were acquitted because the jury couldn’t be sure they knew she didn’t consent. And that’s the problem. Because that’s the wrong question. Those men weren’t looking for consent, they weren’t asking for it, they weren’t even considering it. They wanted their penises in a vagina. That was their goal. Consent wasn’t a consideration. So how could they have known they didn’t have consent when it wasn’t even a thought in their heads? If you don’t ask the question, you can’t be told no.

[Passthefuckingprosecco]

I bet they fucking did. They assumed; they thought there was no need to actually ask, it never occurred to them that she might want to refuse them

I don't want to disagree as neither of us know. But I don't see how you can be sure. maybe they just didn't give a shit whether they had consent or not. Even when taken to court - which were extremely low chances - they get off.

[sashh]

Another reminder, unless you have deep pockets, be careful what you say about innocent people on a public forum.

I believe they are as innocent as Ched Evans and OJ Simpson.

I believe her.

[GiveMyHeadPeaceffs]

@Passthefuckingprosecco I wasn't shocked by their response tbh but it's just so sad for all that that alleged victim has gone through.

[confuddledconfudle]

@GiveMyHeadPeaceffs omg really! I'm in Belfast and I have to say my colleagues have had a total opposite reaction.

What someone did raise with me before verdict is the possibility that they are both telling their own truths. She did not consent or want to. However they are so entitled and can't imagine a girl not wanting to be with them they assumed consent so don't believe they have done wrong. I do think this may be the closest thing to the truth.

It comes back to our laws. Women should not have to say no - they should have to say yes. Therefore assumed consent cannot plane possible or mistaken.

Also how is it not at the least sexual assault. The defence argued she was drunk. If she was so drunk her story was not to be believed, how was she able to consent being that drunk?

[confuddledconfudle]

Also there is no winners in this case

Everyone's name is mud now and it's a sad case for other rape victims (as can be seen on threads on here).

I still think there will be a majority of people who will think those boys are guilty (they were not proven innocent after all)

I think there will be a minority who are after the girl and slaying her

I think rape victims will be more reluctant to come forward

[Maryz]

Passthefuckingprosecco, they didn't ask her, nowhere in their evidence did even they say they asked her. That coupled with their messages about women makes me 100% sure it never occurred to them that there was any need to ask.

I said back at the beginning (when I saw the first WhatsApp messages) that they would never accept they had done anything wrong. Men with attitudes like theirs never do.

[Theswaggyotter]

Add David Goodwillie (yes that’s really his name) and David Robertson to that list sashh 2 Scottish footballers found guilty in civil case

[Maryz]

"the possibility that they are both telling their own truths"

Yes, that's a better way of putting what I was trying to say. She was telling the truth, but it never occurred to her that what they were doing was wrong.

We are back to the business that "she didn't say no" isn't enough - it should be "she specifically said yes" as the point of proof.

[sashh]

We should set up a fund to take cases to civil courts.

[sawdustformypony]

Maryz That the men did not reasonably believe she consented

There's a bit more to it than that. If that is what their defence was, then the burden of proof is reversed from the Crown on to the men - it is for them to prove to the jury why it was that they reasonably thought this. They can't just say 'oh well I though she consented' and leave it at that.

[Maryz]

But that was the judge's direction to the jury, Saw . I thought it was odd, but she told them they had to be certain that "the men did not reasonably believe she consented".

My heart fell when I read that bit, because I don't think they ever believed she didn't consent, so how could the jury be certain of it?

[SignedUpAgain]

I am also in NI, and this case has disgusted me - been following it on and off for the duration.
My DC currently attend the same precious school most of these men attended, where rugby players, even at schoolboy level are put on pedestals and can do no wrong.

The posts on local news feeds on Facebook and Twitter would actually make you sick. Load of them from women. All so worried about those poor boys' careers.

For anyone not in NI, or Ireland - these rugby players are absolutely treated like superstars. Full on VIPS, and yes actually there are girls regularly 'throwing themselves' at them, must like girls probably with premiership footballers.

Hopefully Ulster Rugby will not have them back - but who cares they can go to England or France and make a fortune.

Totally sickened today with the news - our justice system stinks!