Ulster Rugby Rape Trial - Not guilty to all charges

[Quimby]

Verdict just returned
Not guilty to all four accused, all unanimous decisions.

[anneoneill]

Another reminder, unless you have deep pockets, be careful what you say about innocent people on a public forum.

[wrenika]

We're not seeing everything - the decision has been made. We can speculate as much as we like, but ultimately, that's all it is - speculation without all the facts.

[sleepyhead]

Oh stop with the #nodebate shit anneoneill.

[GrainneWail]

I too believe the woman in this case. She was phenomenal to endure her time on the stand with the dignity and coherence that she did. I hope she has all the love and support she needs.

[Maryz]

If anyone I know ever gets raped I will do everything I can to ensure they don't report it.

I'm not surprised by the verdict - the judge's instructions were that the jury could only convict if they were sure the men knew the woman didn't consent - it seems extraordinary, but that was what she told them.

And obviously they didn't think she didn't consent. It never occurred to them than anyone would refuse them anything. They didn't then, and they don't now, and they never will believe they were guilty of anything.

[herethereandeverywhere]

trying to persuade others not to is making it all worse not better.

For whom?

I'd be persuading my DDs and any friends I know who became rape victims not to report. I'd undoubtedly be making it better for the future lives and the psychological health of those rape victims.

[Springsnake]

Can she request a retrial?

[anneoneill]

I don't recall using a hashtag, @sleepyhead.

Anyway, I've reported the thread, and saved copies of it for the innocent mens' legal team, so we'll see how it goes.

[sleepyhead]

pmsl.

[buckeejit]

@anneoneill -no one here has been declared innocent. A bit guilty verdict is a far cry from innocent.

I believe her, not seen the social media side yet but the legal system is shit as others have said. Very sad day

[Maryz]

And (splitting my post to avoid it all being deleted), they are in my opinion guilty of something.

They are guilty of the most disgusting misogynistic attitudes I have ever seen, evidenced by their texts and their conversations and their behaviour, none of which is contested.

So not guilty (not proven) of the charges, perhaps. But suitable to be role models for young people, definitely no. Suitable to be picked to play for Ireland, a THOUSAND times no.

They are utter bastards, even if they have been found not guilty.

[Maryz]

I believe her.

Before the trial I didn't necessarily - there are cases of women accusing well-known people in order to get money/fame/whatever.

Having followed closely every day of this trial, I believe her. And I hope she is ok.

[sleepyhead]

Well exactly Maryz. They showed who they were right out of their own mouths.

I'd be so ashamed if that was a man in my family.

[Maryz]

The law needs to be changed from "she didn't say no so I assume she consented" to "she didn't consent because she didn't specifically (and preferably enthusiastically) say yes".

It's an appalling way to look at things.

If I leave my door open and someone steals my handbag, I don't have to prove that I didn't want someone to come into my house. They have to show I invited them. Rape law is backwards, and stems from the right of a man to do what he wants to a woman unless that women specifically stops him.

I am fucking furious. And simultaneously, sadly, not surprised.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

I've just seen the text messages and Whatsapp messages for the first time. If they were my sons, I'd be considering cutting off all contact. Their attitudes to women absolutely stink.

I am so very sorry for the woman involved. I believe her too.

[IndominusRex]

I believe her.

[treaclesoda]

Anyway, I've reported the thread, and saved copies of it for the innocent mens' legal team, so we'll see how it goes.

Really? Are you going to tell your mum on us too?

[pallisers]

bizarre Crit? What swamp do you live in where it is bizarre for a mother to advise her daughters?

I have absolutely no responsibility to stop men who want to rape women. How about they deal with their criminal tendancies themselves. I do have a responsibility to my own children and I know exactly what that responsibility will be if they are raped by some scum. As a middle aged woman, I'd be more likely to report it if I were raped - I am more likely to be believed and more likely to cope if I am not.

[Maryz]

I'm not concerned ab out accusations of libel.

I'm prepared to say I believe her and will be doing so in real life and anywhere else I can. I believe what happened to her. I believe she was telling the truth.

I'm prepared to believe that they aren't, legally, guilty of the crimes they were accused of (though I'm surprised by the "accidental" deleting of messages being accepted) and I'm not in any way criticising the jury.

But that doesn't mean I can't also believe that they did what she said they did and she felt like she says she felt, and that their attitudes and reactions and lying (which one at least of them must have been) and the law itself stink.

[thatwouldbeanecumenicalmatter]

@Springsnake - yes you’d think a male jury majority would mean that she’d less likely get a fair trial but apparently it’s been found that your more likely to get a rape conviction with more male jurors. It was something about perspective - the women jurors judge the alleged victim with the mindset of “I would/‘not have done that/gone there etc” whereas the men judge the accused with a similar mindset, which apparently results in a more favourable jury for the alleged victim.

Sadly not surprised - it’s men, sports men at that - they are put on a pedestal and a lot of fans are happy to overlook anything they do outside the sport as long as they’re successful for their team.

Total scumbags, as a PP said we saw the text/WhatsApp exchanges between them, we ‘see’ who and what they are.

#Ibelieveher

[Vickxy]

I'd only ever report a rape and advise my DDs to do the same if it was the 'stranger jumps out of the bushes' scenario. Anything else and society is too willing to assume 'she asked for it'. previously knew assailant/on a date = can't be rape.

Same. I don't think I would even report in a case of stranger rape though tbh, as it would still be my fault in someway. I would be drunk, I would have been wearing something revealing, I would hav e been being all female around a male, whatever. It would be my fault and I would be cross examined as if it was me committing the crime.

Then, when he gets off with it, I would be a lying bitch who set out to ruin the life of a man I didn't know, for no reason other than I am a 'misandrist'

Its so fucking depressing.

[mikado1]

I see there are to be rallies in Belfast and Dublin.