Ulster Rugby Rape Trial - Not guilty to all charges

[Quimby]

Verdict just returned
Not guilty to all four accused, all unanimous decisions.

So how it goes is:

Crime is reported
Evidence is gathered / witness statements
Police arrest accused/suspects
prosection people decide whether to go to court
If yes - the prosecution take the suspects to court on behalf of the state (or crown)
Witnesses are called by the defence and by the prosecution to try and prove their side is the right one, they can be cross-examined by the "other side"

Rape victims are witnesses therefore have no-one "in their corner" in criminal proceedings, this includes children I believe. Some of the children in rotherham case I think it was were cross-examined by ?12 barristers...

And you add in that in sex offence trials it always seems to be the victim who is "on trial" - are they telling the truth or not, while the defendents sit on the sidelines. I don't even think they have to be questioned at all - if the defence don't call them then the prosection can't (could be wrong on that).

It used to be that the defenents could cross examine and many used to enjoy that - thankfully it's been stopped but not that long ago I don't thikn.

I maybe another thing that needs to change. Just in case anyone hasn't see this letter to the victim, it's pretty powerful

Great letter.

TheDukesOfHazzard Thanks for explaining.

buckeejit that is a brilliant brilliant letter.

soberpaddy.com/how-not-to-be-a-rapist/

This has been shared on my FB feed. It’s pretty good.

The jury was made up of 8 men and 3 women. They were never going to be found guilty.

Great article zibbidoo

I don’t think they would or could have been found guilty with an all female jury. It’s the question. The question is wrong and needs changed. The jury couldn’t have been sure beyond reasonable doubt that they didn’t believe they had consent because they weren’t operating on the basis of consent so the question of consent never occurred to them. Therefore the idea she didn’t consent wasn’t present. It’s the basis for a guilty verdict that is wrong. The question shouldnt be “did they believe she didn’t consent” it should be “did she’s consent and can they prove they sought her consent”.

I was just coming on here to share that article Zibbidoo, it really resonated with me. Im going to print it off and have it to give to my son when hes older. I think it should be compulsory reading for ever teenager and advised reading for every sexually active man. Its really that simple, dont rape, ensure enthusiastic consent.

Another purported member of the WhatsApp group is subject to internal review by Ulster and won't be available for selection for their match this weekend. Good.

Oh that looks like a step in the right direction at least craic. Hopefully it’s not just for show and they are actually reviewing their behaviour properly.

Indeed - very good.

Just read that about CG. Glad to see ulster rugby investigating.

Zibbidoo thanks for the link to that article.
That gives me some hope that men (and my DS in the future) get it.
The online commentary is depressing- and that man's article is an antidote.

I wonder if defence barristers in rape cases have ever acted as a prosecutor in a rape trial and what their win loss rate was. I suspect it would be very few wins as prosecutor. I sometimes think many defence lawyers just like defending these cases because the win record is better after all they have to do is create reasonable doubt.
I only say this because barristers are always saying they are only doing their job - that is representing the client whether it be the crown or an individual. But they seem to never have the crown as their client and therefore never prosecute.

The article is great, although the definition of rape is wrong in the context of the case. Presumably that is the Irish law definition rather than the UK one that was relevant in the case. Actually, it might have been easier to secure a conviction under the definition in the article as there does not seem to be a reasonable belief defence.

Stats on rape cases in NI. I cannot get away from them
about 1.8% convicted

I read his apology earlier. I think it's more "sorry I got caught, than sorry I did it."

Was he really unlucky enough that the only message of such tone he ever sent was the one that got caught up in a rape trial?

Nope Craig Gilroy is sorry he got caught, he's sorry people know what a dick he is and what he actually thinks of women. He's shiteing himself about his career. Let's not pretend he's had an enlightening moment, it's a pure arse saving exercise.

I don’t think there was anything in his tweet to indicate he is implying it was a one off. He is clear that going forward he will use better language. It could be seen as an ‘arse covering’ exercise, but he, like everyone involved has a choice. He chose to hold his hands up, apologise and promise to be better going forward. At least that is a marginally better role model.

What a top shagger..... Gee that makes all the difference.

Oh for goodness sake, step. Is this an open discussion where we can share our opinions, or are we only allowed to share if we hold the ‘correct’ opinion?

NotTakenUsername - Sorry find it hard to have any respect for these guys. The texts were vile, the played off one and other and show a deep disrespect for women as well as displaying an air of arrogance that I can't abide. His apology does a little, but really nowhere near enough.