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Original poster

Ulster Rugby Rape Trial - Not guilty to all charges

980 replies

Quimby · 28/03/2018 12:35

Verdict just returned
Not guilty to all four accused, all unanimous decisions.

OP posts:
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10
LastGirlOnTheLeft · 02/04/2018 22:08

I bet they were Will Carling and Bill Beaumont!

LassWiADelicateAir · 02/04/2018 22:13

Oh I forgot Carling but I don't know the other one !

I was thinking of Gavin Hastings and Doddie Weir.

LastGirlOnTheLeft · 02/04/2018 22:21

You must be young Lass!! Bill Beaumont was the squashy faced man on a Question of Sport!! Waaaayyyy back when!!

GrainneWail · 02/04/2018 22:22

I loved Bill Beaumont on A Question of Sport....

LastGirlOnTheLeft · 02/04/2018 22:26

Aaahhh...me too Grainne!!! Reminds me of happy times!! Who was the Liverpudlian he always played against?? He was always laughing and smiling?? I can't remember the name!!

LastGirlOnTheLeft · 02/04/2018 22:28

Wikied it!!!Emlyn Hughes!!

NotTakenUsername · 02/04/2018 23:02

This is what we are up against. Women accept women being called sluts... men argue it is a needed descriptive word... I despair. Sad

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3210997-Am-I-a-slut?pg=1&order=

buckeejit · 02/04/2018 23:14

I started my previous post with the aim of asking if conviction rates were higher in ROI for rape but never got round to it.

Also not a big rugby fan here & wouldn't have known any of them -in laws are massively into rugby league which seems to be quite a different culture.

I've just been through the thread about suggestions to change the law & asking for solicitors input. I'm none the wiser just much more depressed about the whole thing.

BoreOfWhabylon · 03/04/2018 00:26

Good article Polly
So to Paddy Jackson and Stuart Olding, Blane McIlroy and Rory Harrison, I say this: you may have been found not guilty of the charges brought against you, but you are all guilty of being utter scum. You are damned by your own words. “Spit roasting” women with your friends and later laughing about them as “sluts” and “flutes” doesn’t make you “top shaggers”. It makes you pathetic, inadequate misogynists who see women as nothing more than mere masturbatory receptacles. If you think leaving women bleeding, torn and crying is normal then you should not be having sex. I hope and expect that no woman will ever want to touch any of you after this case. You should not be wearing the jersey of any national sports team, regardless of the verdict.

Sums it up for me.

WhyOhWine · 03/04/2018 10:00

I know there has been a dscussion upthread on the reference in the messages to the woman's school, but I also noticed that the schools the men went to were often referred to in the commentary in the local press. Is there any particular significance to this (other than establishing how 3 of the men know each other), e.g. is it akin to referring to the fact that someone went to Eton (to imply privilege - there are various references to the men being middle class and privileged) or is it common in press reporting in NI to refer to the school?

As I understand it the schools in question are not private schools (although I did see one article that referred to them as such) but i think they are grammar schools. Is there something specific about the schools in question or are all grammar schools in NI regarded as middle class?

PaulDacreRimsGeese · 03/04/2018 10:05

Methodist College is posh.

Step · 03/04/2018 10:52

Norn Iron - If you know where somebody was educated they get a pretty instant idea about you. It's pretty standard put somebody in a box practice, and those boxes are never particularly nice. VCB, CCB, MCB, RBAI, CAI ... they will all be used to categorise, if your school started with a St. then there is another whole can of worms. Bloody hate NI attitudes nearly all of the time. As a wishy washy liberal supporting gay marriage, feminist rights etc you can feel alone.

This trial is really establishment old school sort of thing that gives it a spin. Really horrified to hear PJ is thinking of suing the world... The messages etc are horrific, and I really don't understand why he'd want them dissected even more!

WhyOhWine · 03/04/2018 11:15

Is it posh because it is in a posh area or is it posh because it has that reutation so posh people apply there? Just curious because I know someone who went there at university and she always spoke very highly of her school. I found the constant references to the schools interesting and so wondered if there was a point being made that is lost on someone not local.

Step · 03/04/2018 11:36

Trying not to be one eyed here... It's a decent school, prep school is fee paying I believe, but if you have your 11 plus then the main school is almost free (some sundries). It's in a "naice" area of town - Malone Road is very up market. Decent results, good reputation. Not posh by posh English standard - we're not talking Eton or Harrow here...

iheartmichellemallon · 03/04/2018 12:08

Agreed, not posh by Eton standards but definitely a very good school & likely a lot better than most English private schools. It's also very much 'old boys network' type school & the majority of attendees will be Protestant.

Which school you went to in NI does say a lot about an individual (for those who want to pigeon hole).

gluteustothemaximus · 03/04/2018 13:12

Not sure if this has been mentioned already, but the witness Dara Florence (who pretty much gave the reasonable doubt) and said she saw a threesome - she said 100% that she saw Jackson thrusting, and having sex.

Jackson says he didn't have sex with the woman.

So someone is lying.

Who the FUCK was this girls lawyer???????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can only confess to being an avid viewer of The Good Wife and other crime dramas, and have limited knowledge by the google searches I do, but fucking hell, THAT IS A BIG INCONSISTENCY!!!!

Unless the lawyer did counter it, and no one listened anyway.

None of this makes sense. Jackson said that the woman willingly gave him a blow job, and then when he mate walked in, she beckoned him over and gave him a blow job (yeah, sounds like a fantasy doesn't it?) - then the woman proceeded to finger herself (more fantasy stuff) and that Jackson noticed she was bleeding and assumed she was on her period.

The doctor confirmed she was NOT on her period, and that she had internal injuries. What, caused by her own fingers?!

This is insane. This level of evidence. And all thrown away because Dara saw a 'threesome'. And her evidence contradicted Jacksons, but whatever.

The woman involved had inconsistencies apparently. Like not knowing which man was having sex with her because she couldn't see behind her.

AngryAngry

treaclesoda · 03/04/2018 13:21

The schools thing in N Ireland is an obsession, often closely associated with rugby. You'll see 50 year old men at Ravenhill on St Patrick's Day cheering on their old school, wearing their old rugby shirt (if they still fit in it) and wearing their old school scarf. They'll be middle aged and sitting in the pub bantering about how much better their school is at rugby that someone else's school. It's properly baffling to outsiders.

And in N Ireland there are lots of grammar schools but some definitely have reputations regarding wealth and privilege. Again, we're not talking Eton, but at the same time if you look up the stats for Methody, I don't think you'd find many kids getting free school meals etc. I went to one of those types of schools (although none of the ones mentioned in this case) and we were constantly told that we were privileged to be allowed to study there.

BastardGingerCat · 03/04/2018 13:45

Jackson noticed she was bleeding and assumed she was on her period.

One thing that eludes me is how the 1cm tear in her vagina was dismissed as something that could happen during "normal sex" - surely in the wildly unlikely case that such a injury occurred during consensual sex, the first thing you'd do is stop and get treatment. I have stopped sex because I've got a cramp in my foot, never mind because I have a fucking internal laceration that is being repeatedly hit with every thrust.

Is there some misunderstanding going on here where men think that because women have periods, they don't feel pain in their vagina or that there's less pain because it's a sex injury? I feel like men on the jury would have realised the severity of the incident much more if it had been pointed out that pain from a 1cm tear in the vagina would be comparable to a 1cm tear in the scrotum...

What the hell porn soaked world are we living in where anyone would think it's normal to carry on sex with such an injury?

PaulDacreRimsGeese · 03/04/2018 13:51

She wouldn't have had a lawyer gluteus.

gluteustothemaximus · 03/04/2018 14:01

She wouldn't have had a lawyer gluteus

Shit, seriously? No free representation?

What the hell porn soaked world are we living in where anyone would think it's normal to carry on sex with such an injury?

Agreed Sad

WhyOhWine · 03/04/2018 14:12

Yes, the prosecution is by the State (Crown Prosection Service, or NI equivalent I guess) not the "complainant", so technically the prosecuting lawyers are not her lawyers as they would be if this were a civil claim.

TheDukesOfHazzard · 03/04/2018 14:13

In rape cases the victim is a witness to the crime.

Witnnesses don't have lawyers.

Trinity66 · 03/04/2018 14:15

I hadn't heard of them either - I'm in England as well and also don't follow rugby so no chance!

I'd only heard of paddy Jackson as he was just starting to feature prominently on the Irish national team, hadn't heard of the others though

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