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Support for MN feminists from James Kirkup

59 replies

BrandySchnapps · 27/03/2018 12:13

Couldn't see another thread about it.

His article was retweeted by Andrew Neil.
(You need an account to read the full thing)

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/03/fear-and-loathing-grips-the-gender-debate/

OP posts:
Wheresmyfuckingcupcake · 27/03/2018 13:09

Excellent, balanced article.

Datun · 27/03/2018 13:17

Thank you James Kirkup.

TERF is the new witch. It doesn't matter what you say, or how you say it, nothing less then complete capitulation will spare you the abuse.

But, like the water test, you still end up drowning by agreeing to your own erasure.

hipsterfun · 27/03/2018 13:21

Thanks, James Smile

hackmum · 27/03/2018 13:31

Thank you, James. And if you're reading this, I'm pleased you took Owen Jones to task as well.

Waddlelikeapenguin · 27/03/2018 13:40

Cheers James Star

MrsWooster · 27/03/2018 13:54

Good article. I've shared it on FB, where no doubt it will receive the usual tumbleweedy response. I suppose I am lucky that I have only decent friends who aren't likely to abuse even if they disagree...

LastGirlOnTheLeft · 27/03/2018 13:59

James, you are a decent, intelligent man. I so wish more were like you. Instead it feels like men are in a race to the bottom.

HomeTerf · 27/03/2018 14:03

TERF is the new witch

This is terrifyingly true. TERFs are responsible for violent men murdering transwomen today in the same way as witches were responsible for milk turning sour in the 17th century. In other words, because men say so.

NotTerfNorCis · 27/03/2018 14:16

Great article, James. It's so hard to explain to people why terf is an insult. Even my partner is confused, saying 'it's just a description, an acronym'.

hackmum · 27/03/2018 14:30

NotTerfNorCis: one answer is that it's an insult because it's intended as an insult. Imagine referring to your local Asian shopkeeper as a "Paki". You could argue that it's purely descriptive - merely an abbreviation of the neutral "Pakistani", so what's wrong with that? But of course it's a word that is absolutely dripping with hate. Similarly, you only ever see Terf in the context of statements such as "I hate Terfs", "Kill all Terfs", "I punch Terfs" and so on.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 27/03/2018 15:08

The other thing to remember about the t word is that it is used of people who actually aren't any or all of the things for which it is supposedly a neutral acronym: feminists who are actually liberal not radical, women who have stumbled across the issue but actually aren't feminists, feminists who include transMEN in their analysis and thus cannot be described as trans exclusive.
Same as the way 'paki' was used indiscriminately of people from all over the Indian subcontinent, I think that fact is a pretty good clue to the bad faith of the people who use it.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 27/03/2018 15:09

Is the Spectator article in the latest print edition?

NoSquirrels · 27/03/2018 15:38

@TheCountesd I am happy to be corrected, but I think it’s a blog opinion piece so online only. Be great if it wasn’t but I’m afraid it’s probably online only.

NoSquirrels · 27/03/2018 15:41

’it's just a description, an acronym'.

It doesn’t describe me.

I’m a self-ID sceptic who is nontheless both gender critical and trans-inclusionary.

It’s not so good for handy social media tagging though!

RogerAllamsFangirl · 27/03/2018 15:49

Thanks James. I am considering taking out a subscription to the Spectator, thanks in large part to your writing.

BoreOfWhabylon · 27/03/2018 16:03

James has been responsible for me taking out an online subscription to The Spectator. Thank you James

I've also taken out a subscription to The Times, chiefly because of Janice Turner.

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered · 27/03/2018 16:20

Thank you James.

Tired of Explaining Reality to Fuckwits!

I'm very sorry I can't remember who posted this a few days ago.
I love it but can't take any credit for it.

Mercison · 27/03/2018 16:27

Thank you James. It seems only men are allowed to talk about this.

Mercison · 27/03/2018 16:29

I took out a sub to the spectator last year and also to the Times as a way of thanking Janice and to do the crosswords

Lefthanddown · 27/03/2018 16:36

Brilliant article. Thank you James.

Badgerthebodger · 27/03/2018 17:09

Really fantastic article thank you James.

One side effect of me discovering these boards and radical feminism is that I have gone from almost exclusively reading (and subscribing to) The Guardian. I have cancelled my sub because of their appalling attitude to women and subscribed to The Times instead because of Janice Turner. So refreshing to read some proper journalism

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 27/03/2018 17:11

Very impressive article. So great to see someone who has listened and understood the issues and can see the bigger picture.
Thank you, James.

NotTerfNorCis · 27/03/2018 21:22

@TheCountessofFitzdotterel That's a good way of putting it. Unfortunately he's a James O'Brien fan, and O'Brien was full of 'but it's just an acronym'.

NotTerfNorCis · 27/03/2018 21:23

Sorry that was @hackmum.

MissPiggysKarateChop · 27/03/2018 21:29

TERF is the new witch. It doesn't matter what you say, or how you say it, nothing less then complete capitulation will spare you the abuse.

It really is. You can be as balanced and reasonable as possible and the response is still a hysterical cry to burn the witch.

I'm glad to see an article which doesn't miss the point; the sinister blaming, shaming and silencing of women and the fact we aren't actually advocating hate language or behaviour.

So thank you James. I've been actually considering a sub to The Spectator, not necessarily my views all the time but I'm enjoying the writing and I don't mind my opinions being challenged by others.