The Deptford People Project and the impact of self-ID and transactivism on working class women

[BloodyFreezing]

Interesting interview with Lucy McDonagh, co-founder of the Deptford People Project in this article:

www.feministcurrent.com/2018/03/23/leftist-women-uk-refuse-accept-labours-attempts-silence-critiques-gender-identity/

Custardo, some people think it is sexuality similar to Grayson Perry’s.

Though he considers himself to be all man.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/23/grayson-perry-my-greatest-sort-of-sex-dream-was-to-be-a-housewif/

if we are an oppressed sex then what is the benefit to men?

I've read a blog of a man identifying as trans which stated that they failed at being a successful man so they decided to transition to a woman so they could be the top of that group. It was linked to from on here.

I guess that's one reason. It's not unusual in human beings to opt out of something you feel you fail at before it rejects you.

yep seen the psort argument - doesn't affect a lot of women tbh

how it is going to affect me - my daughter?

again ifonlyus - its a bit niche

stick on a dress and things are great for you...why?

and then conversely why /how does this affecct me? or dd?

Also have a look at how people are treating a. Men and b. Their trans equivalent in certain situations.

E.g. Male prisoner in for sex related crimes = hated. Become trans and you are a freedom fighting hero covered in the Guardian and with a support group cheering you on.

Or e.g. If a bloke shouted at Rose McGowan while she was talking about her abuse for not thinking about HIS experiences, he would be vilified. Let alone what would happen after allegations of him abusing underage girls came out. Yet same bloke with long hair and saying he is a transwoman gets a lot of people on his side.

Plenty more of these egs once you start looking.

custardo:
"i am still struggling a little if we are opressed, what tangible benefits do men get and...AND what then disaddvantages us"
Asdoctorcuntybollocks says earlier in this thread, "Men who identify as women aren't treated as women - they're treated as very special men."

Also: 53rdWay nailed it. Yes.

can't see how that affect me or my rights as a woman

light - i understand the premis of the argument - my question still stands

a man puts on a dress and gets a promotion over me? not anywhere i have worked would a man in a dress not be looked at sideways ( whethr that is right or wrong)

what advantage do they get - and conversely how does this affect me

He doesn’t need to put on a dress. No surgery needed. No hormones.

if we are an oppressed sex then what is the benefit to men?

It’s not a benefit to all men.

It is a benefit to certain marginalised men - feminine men, who are oppressed by the male gender stereotypes. They don’t conform to male expectations and so they’re less successful in society, more troubled by mental health etc

They transition so they can become “women” where they no longer need to conform to macho patriarchal norms. They then over-identify with feminine gender norms that are actually a bit oppressive and insulting to women. Because we’re socialised to be accepting and nurturing for years we’ve welcomed people with gender disphoria into our female communities.

But now they’re transplaiing to women that they’re the most oppressed now.

A trans person is way more likely in the current climate to climb to the top of an all-woman shortlist than a biological woman.

In sport the situation is clear.

Trans people dont want to have third spaces - which is the logical thing. They want to be accepted wholesale as their identified gender.

They’re changing laws by stealth through powerful lobbying that will affect how women’s issues are funded and talked about and regulated for.

declare yourself a woman and get what advantage ? we dont have many.

They’re changing laws by stealth through powerful lobbying that will affect how women’s issues are funded and talked about and regulated for - nosqurrels

aha i think this is it tell me more

i can hesterton - thank you.

therefore in those scenarios does the proposed hange in law mean i would not be allowed to ask for a woman - as that would be ddiscriminatory

and if so what would be the consequence

a man puts on a dress and gets a promotion over me? not anywhere i have worked would a man in a dress not be looked at sideways ( whethr that is right or wrong)

The narrative is that because they’re so “brave” to transition, they are therefore more deserving than you, as a woman.

So if all qualifications and skills are equal, but you’re a born woman and they’re a trans woman, they have a much bigger tick in the equality and inclusivity box - which organisations are keen to promote. You lose out. Plus - the statistics say they’re a woman, so you’re no longer oppressed at all, as a “woman” git the job (and probably a bigger pay rise because they’ll not bother employers with tedious childbearing or maternity leave, as everyone knows that’s not a biological reality for them).

but men are more likley to get a promotion over me anyway - no need to declare yourself a woman for that.

interested in the funding, regulation and laws though - any more info

I think different trans people want different things so you can't make generalisations about what all people want or would do. The thing about self-ID is any man could choose to use it you would never know the motivations. Lots of people have given answers, so maybe just think them through and come to whatever your own conclusions are about the issue and how you think it affects you or other often vulnerable women if you also care about them.

Changes in law.

Currently the Equality Act says sex is a protected characteristic- it recognised that women have a need for sex-segregated spaces and services. Like all Hesterton’s examples. Under current Equality Act law, it’s OK that organisations or services say “No - you are a man with a penis you can’t work for us” and that’s NOT discrimination.

If you are trans but have a GRC (gender recognition certificate) you can be treated as a member of the sex you’ve transitioned to. And then you CAN work for those services because 2 doctors have agreed you’ve been a “woman” for over 2 years and taken hormones etc.

BUT - self ID says scrap the medical proof of 2 doctors, you are what you say you are. Scrap the 2 year period of living as your chosen sex. Just declare you “intend” to. Bingo, you have a GRC and can now be admitted to all the single-sex services and it will be discrimination to refuse.

having a discussion with grown up daughter about this and she asked - if in a patriarchal society - men are favoured - why would someone say they were trans to get treated like us women i.e. not as well as men.

This issue comes up a lot. In a patriarchal society women are presented as and viewed as privileged by men.
Men who envy SAHMs.
Men who believe women can have sexual relations whenever they want.
Men we see on this forum who repeatedly claim that they historically built and made and have done everything and women are supported by men's hard work.
Men court women and we are the gatekeepers to sex.
The say they do everything for us and we should be grateful.
This is the message of the patriarchy. The media sells it and the men buy it. Some women do too, but most of us see the difference between the narrative and the lived experience.
If boys believe the story the patriarchs tell about women it should come as no surprise that some might covet the power the patriarchs claim the girls have to seduce them.
If you read the transgender identified men's words that is what they are saying. They want the womanhood the patriarchy tells them we have. Until they experience a little of it. Then they call it transphobia.

custardo one example would be that trans' point of view completely negates feminism. Completely obfuscates the fact we are discriminated against. Are sexually abused on a grand scale and our biology makes it hard to compete against men - in sport, or the workplace. This issue has really opened my eyes to the hatred certain (not all) men have for women. This tweet is from a man who thinks having a miscarriage is like having a shit. I miscarried my baby is a pub toilet. It was not like having a poo.

Also the way statistics are collated with regard to born men and women.

E.g. if company boardrooms must comprise, say, 30% women at minimum, but those "women" are actually transwomen who transed in their 30s after climbing the greasy pole as men..... then the statistics may bear out - women represented, tick - but if those "women" are actually transwomen, then no - women are definitely not represented.

Women's scholarships and bursaries, in order to try to redress the traditional pressures against women's education. Again, if such scholarships or bursaries are given to female-identifying males, then that's another woman who was unfairly robbed of an opportunity she could have had.

Let alone crime statistics, and sex crime in particular. If transwomen are recorded as women, for crime recording purposes, then if self-ID becomes legitimate, we can expect an explosion in crimes, especially sex crimes, committed by women, and a reduction in such crimes committed by men. All false. Who wins in this scenario, eh?

Funding:
if “woman” = “people who say so” then we have agreed that there is no sex-based differences- it’s all just gender.

So why fund research into women’s medical issues, or domestic abuse of women by men, or projects to get women into STEM etc?

Men can already get promoted over you - yes. So why are we making it easier for even more men to take our places? In the scenario I gave above, no one would be doing it for deliberately nefarious purposes I’m sure, but the woman would lose out to the trans person.

Politicians are now on record saying “biology is outdated”.

Is it?

Christ alive that thread about miscarriage. Does that prick really think a miscarriage is like taking a crap? Or does he just hate women that much?

Flame probably hatred but also maybe just zero awareness. I think there was a man on Twitter recently who thought women could hold in period blood like wee and therefore choose when it came out, like when you go to the toilet. They didn't realise it just comes out.

Just to be clear, hatred + ignorance.