Pregnant trans men Guardian article

[Todayissunny]

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/mar/22/story-one-mans-pregnancy-trans-jason-barker

I just find this so confusing....
It tells me that we should just be able to live how we want to. We should absolutely not be defined by gender.

Or am I just really, really old fashioned that this is just absolutely crazy.

he's totally a bloke. From his balding head to his attachment to his caravan, he's a bloke.

'He' is female. 'He' is a woman who chooses to present herself and live her life according to male stereotypes.

Oh, except for the female attribute of child-bearing.

I am appalled by what they have done to Max

Only men like caravans, Jelly, didn’t you know?

Ah the Guardian celebrating TIFs for the only remarkable thing they can (apparently) do which is give birth. Not all that surprising when they are biologically female with all that comprises.

Someone on the first page said the Guardian bathes in Kool Aid - true enough - they use that stuff as the ink in their printing press.

As someone who has met Jason, he's a bloke. I'm an old dyke, I'm really good at spotting the whole sex thing and I can assure you, he's totally a bloke. From his balding head to his attachment to his caravan, he's a bloke.

I have no doubt at all he lives as a man and conforms to many masculine stereoptype. I also have no doubt he is a great person and I'd be interested in seeing his films.

But pregnancy can only be achieved through female biology and that is a fact.

I can also assure you, he makes excellent films, sort of quite and touching and not in the least heavy handed. Well worth seeing.

Wouldn't it be nice if it was his films we were celebrating rather than the pregnancy?

It annoys me greatly that transmen only seem to appear in the media becasue they get pregnant.

Wait...so, going bald is evidence of someone being male (even though hair loss can and does happen to women), but being pregnant and giving birth are no indication at all of being female?

My friend is bloody obsessed with her caravan. She is a heterosexual female.

Wait...so, going bald is evidence of someone being male (even though hair loss can and does happen to women), but being pregnant and giving birth are no indication at all of being female?

I'm okay with the biology stuff, I get that. I even believe that sex and gender match up in the overwhelming majority. If Jason has been called 'female', I wouldn't have said anything, if someone wants to point out physical characteristics in a way that's offensive to another person, I can't say they're not accurate. 'Fat', 'ugly' and 'bald' are all perfectly accurate, descriptive terms and, for some, they're not negative or offensive. Still, most of us manage not to point out these accurate, physical realities.

Wouldn't it be nice if it was his films we were celebrating rather than the pregnancy?

It would be absolutely bloody lovely but not something you can really hold him responsible for.

"Has anyone noticed that trans identified males "transwomen" make the news for sports, business, and politics while trans identified females "transmen" make the news for having babies?"-anon

hmmm

good point.

I'm okay with the biology stuff, I get that. I even believe that sex and gender match up in the overwhelming majority.

@Stillscreaming What definition of gender are you using? Genuine question, I'm not being facetious.

I mentioned this but I wanted to scream - this transperson (female) has a baby and gets to make what seems to be a lucrative film.

Women who have babies are discriminated against, reduce their life time earnings significantly especially if they take more than six months off work, face being a target of discrimination and restructured it of their jobs, may have a hard time returning to work and getting flexibility and so on and so on.....

Gender as a sociocultural concept, the states and expectations of being man or woman.

For example, you need to be female to give birth, females have the appropriate anatomy but the expectation to be the primary carer for a child is gender based, you don't need to be a particular sex to care for a child.

Some people believe gender to be a social construct and, while it might be, there is no proof for this theory, that gender is a social construct is not a 'fact'.

Girls, in general tend to walk and say world earlier than boys. We don't know if this is sex based, due to gendered expectations or something else entirely.

Some people dismiss gender as a set of stereotypes, which might also be true but it should be remembered that behaviours become stereotypical because they are acted out so often. The real question is, are they acted out so often because they are expected or because of another factor?

I am fat, thin haired, and am obsessing over caravans online. I have had TWO babies. I claim my lucrative film and interview contract.

mrswooster

Some people believe gender to be a social construct and, while it might be, there is no proof for this theory, that gender is a social construct is not a 'fact'.
The proof that gender is a cultural creation is the fact that gender performance varies from culture to culture.

@Mrswoodster

Go ahead, no one is stopping you making a film but be aware, that when the media focus on how you look, you will be blamed for it and that some people will focus on single sentences in your interview. I hope no one will compare you to an American you've never met who has had radical surgery she later regretted, in an attempt to undermine who you say you are or believe yourself to be or make assumptions about your relationship based on nothing at all. I hope your film sucessful and you are treated with more respect than Jason has been.

The proof that gender is a cultural creation is the fact that gender performance varies from culture to culture.

There are some small difference in gender performance but, universally women do the childcare, cooking, cleaning etc. In cultures that have never interacted, women were still found to be doing all the shit work at first contact.

StillScreaming - if gender is not cultural, why do many British TIFs say they knew they were trans growing up because they wanted to play football (which is a boys sport in the UK) and many American TIMs say they knew they were trans growing up because they wanted to play soccer (which is a girls sport in the US)?

I see. There is no proof because you disregard the proof that does not support your world view. Got it.

Oh yawn. Woman who looks a bit blokey gets pregnant ::shock::

Show me a man who can get pregnant, now that would blow my socks off, until then, nothing to see here.

Can I ask a question of anyone who likes to recite "gender is a social construct"; how exactly do you think it was constructed?

I wonder in what way it can have been constructed without recognising that it requires participation from the people involved, hence the dichotomous definition of gender being both the external manifestation AND the internal "willingness" (so to speak) to participate.

Olennas I believe some people cite stereotypical interests as reasons why they knew they were trans because to them they felt they were being drawn to express their allegiance to a particular group, indicating to them that they really were a member of that group in some way. It's called signalling. It doesn't matter what the signs are that one would use to display one's belonging to a particular group, or that the signs are different in different parts of the world; it is the desire to "signal" one's belonging that transpeople are commenting on in these circumstances. Hope that helps.

@OlennasWimple

The term you're using is a slur. i don't suppose that I'm going to convince you to change your language but I would like you to consider it the next time you feel that you're being slurred. We're discussing my friend, who is a funny, approachable, friendly and a fantastic parent, he deserves the same respect that you'd give to anyone else. He doesn't deserve to be dehumanise for anyone's political beliefs.

Close reading will show you, that I haven't actually said that gender isn't a social construct. I've said that it's not a provable fact. Some aspect of gender are most certainly social, others, we don't know.

Anyone who has been around teenagers will know that many are quite lumpen when it comes to describing their emotions and fall back on stereotypes for instance, teenage girls with anorexia often reference fashion magazines and expectations of attractiveness as the reason or trigger for their illness, however, , these are factors that all teenage girls tend to be exposed to and anorexia is usually triggered by a traumatic life event.

That teenagers are unable to express themselves properly doesn't mean that gender is an entirely social construct, it just means that they are, generally, inarticulate. I'm fifty and I can't describe gender as a lived experience, I can talk about my experiences but I can't separate what's 'me', what's 'woman' and what's an external expectation, that I've internalised.

@ thebewilderness

Are you saying that women, across the world, aren't all doing the shit work?

Rat - I doubt many would disagree that there is a large element of collusion in the creation of social constructs, both knowingly and unknowingly. Almost every group of humans, from a kindergarten class to a sports team to a knitting circle to a shed enthusiasts group, creates some sort of shared behaviours and other things that mark out "them" and "us". I'm not following, though, how that might mean that gender is not a social construct.

Still - I wasn't discussing anyone in particular.....?