Pregnant trans men Guardian article

[Todayissunny]

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/mar/22/story-one-mans-pregnancy-trans-jason-barker

I just find this so confusing....
It tells me that we should just be able to live how we want to. We should absolutely not be defined by gender.

Or am I just really, really old fashioned that this is just absolutely crazy.

I see that too.

But doesn’t this mean that it is trans women who need to understand and be educated about single sex spaces?

When people's identity is threatened, they reaffirm it. At least some of what you see as entitlement I see as insecurity.

People do react badly when their identity is threatened. That's exactly why TIMs should not be anywhere near women's spaces. They are not women. There is no such thing as an innate gender identity. Nobody is born in the wrong body. The self and the body cannot be separated - unless you believe in eternal souls. Some people have dysphoria. This is awful and sometimes medication and surgery can ease it. But it's still the same self inextricably attached to the same body.

No adult human can expect the entire population to validate a false identity. It's an unachievable ambition. If someone's identity is both false and fragile and comes with a side order of narcissism, they are not only upset when their identity is not validated, they also become a risk to others.

It is not up to women to manage this risk. It is not up to women to pretend that they have suddenly lost the human ability to discern sex at a glance (we can do that, regardless of costume or transition status, in 99.99% of cases). It is sad for a dysphoric individual that they experience material reality - and other people noticing it - as personal injury. But that's not my problem when I'm in a single sex space, which was created precisely to protect me from disordered males who present risk.

the human ability to discern sex at a glance (we can do that, regardless of costume or transition status, in 99.99% of cases)

Funny, because that 0.01% probably isn't that far off the percentage of the population who are transgender and attempting to "pass" as members of the opposite sex.

Funny, because that 0.01% probably isn't that far off the percentage of the population who are transgender and attempting to "pass" as members of the opposite sex.

We're up to 1-1.5% now, I think you'll find.

But that's got fuck all to do with law regressing to Victorian times and women having to individually manage risk posed by disordered males.

Looking at the current bunch of trans women in the headlines I don't see any 'ultra girliness' most come across as far more masculine in behaviour than feminine. When India Willoughby was shouting at the older women or throwing themselves at the men she decided were the attractive ones that looked far more like male entitlement than anything else. Sure she also appeared to be very very insecure but given that everyone was trying their best to accommodate and validate I'm not sure what else is really expected to be done. In any case the experience that is being asserted is generally not that of a trans person and sometimes not even of a person with gender dysphoria, it is 'I am a woman / girl / female'. Comparing it to a Hillsborough victim where they were challenging the perception that they were victims not villains is I think really quite offensive.

No feminist is trying to say that trans people do not exist, or argue that those individuals do not experience the world from a trans perspective (although it is difficult to understand what that really means any more as the term encompasses so much now from distressed people who believe they are in the wrong body to fetishists and ideological bandwagon jumpers) they are simply saying that they are unable to pretend that they are female. Because they aren't - if they were there would be no problem (for anyone) after all.

But doesn’t this mean that it is trans women who need to understand and be educated about single sex spaces?

In my mind (and the Equality Act agrees with me I think) there are some single sex spaces that are more than justified. There are also some transwomen who just aren't getting it and do certainly need an education.

Conversely there are some spaces which really can be gender segregated, or should rightly be on the basis of harm done to each party, and in those cases there probably are some women who need educating. Although I'm loathe to say that because it's become such a loaded phrase.

As usual it's probably the question of which spaces and where the lines are drawn that get people so hot under the collar.

And when people get frustrated that they can't agree a clear and simple line down which to make the cut, they retreat to the extremes - things are very clear and simple at the extemes - in fact they're black and white! No simpler way to handle all those awkward shades of grey.

..and then when everyone's forced to pick a side and gather at the extemes you can add up how many votes are in each camp and declare one side the winner!

That team gets everything all their own way and the other team gets... well... nothing. And either a whole load of women OR a whole load of transwomen get a really fucking miserable life.

Which is why we don't do things this way in this day and age.

And we try and spread the burden of tolerance around a bit, so everybody comes out with at least a little bit of something - because these are people's lives we're talking about. So unfortunately I think we really do have to try and navigate down that messy grey area in the middle.

and men? Men just seem to carry on regardless...

You talked specifically about transwomen and women's spaces, that's all.

Men have got a whole HELL of a lot of being educated to do!

Men can't have babies.