Man Friday hits the news!

[NotAWhacktivist]

This doesn't seem to have been posted yet. Hats off to this women (she has posted here about her efforts)

Topless swimmer wades into trans row
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/9a8e437c-2a35-11e8-8cd0-05c64066237c

I too think the hat is inspired. Next step ......a Busby Berkeley routine. Well done those men ladies.

Fantastic! Really welll done, both of you. I’m seeing the articles shared all over Twitter,and apparently Julie Bindel was talking about you on sky news this morning

Fantastic! well done. I was following the self-ID swimming thread.

Thank you, thank you, thank you

Julie Bindel

Going to raise my head above the line again, and mirror what an earlier poster said: I think going topless was a mistake. Ofc you’re getting media attention - you were topless. They like that, as do their target audience. Just because a few guys in the session you attended complained doesn’t mean the wider world gives a monkeys.

Ultimately, I think the importance of the point behind all of this will be drowned out because media attention: boobs.

I really get the desire to DO something and to take action, but I think it’s vital to consider the wider picture and what message it brings to the issue generally, as a whole. What will people remember from this, ultimately? That women were taking a stand against gender ID or that some woman got her tits out in a pool?

Writersblock2 I’m also torn on this one. It’s not something I’m comfortable doing but the group is about raising awareness among men and it does get attention. Whether it’s productive attention or not is a tricky one.

That clip of sky news gets the point across. yesitsadebate Don’t know who the male presenter is but his tone was dismissive.

Absolutely. I personally don’t just believe raising awareness = goal. What are you raising awareness OF? Slutwalk wants to raise awareness too - but the only awareness they manage to raise is that the women attending get naked.

I think this runs the risk of women being further ignored further, tbh. If I was a woman not aware of all of these issues and my introduction was an article headlined “Topless” I’d write it off as yet another attention-seeking person getting their kit off and I wouldn’t take the message seriously at all. If I was a bloke I’d either do the same or I would read it in the hope I saw some pics.

So yeah, I think this does more harm than good.

I disagree Writers because it needs a stunt to get noticed and then people who are oblivious see the story. I wore a rash vest and the men were just as uncomfortable about me being there too, but it didn’t get mentioned in the story.

The Mail etc will focus on boobs but it will get people thinking that if there are boobs and fannies in the men’s changing rooms, there can be willies in the women’s. Without the boobs you haven’t the impact, and you need something highly noticeable to get traction.

Yes people will always remember the woman who got her tits out in a pool and not necessarily as the start of the conversation about self ID but they will now be talking about self ID. It’s something that has been so niche that Amy getting her boobs out in the Mail on Sunday is what has been needed as a catalyst to conversation.

I don’t know. The whole world is upside down and I am extremely conflicted about nearly everything, being a bleeding heart lefty liberal, but the news that biology is now irrelevant is HUGE and if it can be brought to the attention of people at all that is a good thing.

Well done!!! I'd be way too scared to go topless at the men's session.

I did do a small act of bravery though. I took two bras to try on in the men's changing room of M&S. No member of staff stopped me, but two blokes looked at me a bit weird when I passed them on my way out.

I think it’s incredibly simplistic to think that because the boobs got the attention people will bother with the underlying message. If anything, I think a lot of people who would bother paying attention to the underlying message will be dismissive because of the boobs.

That you didn’t get the media attention for the rash vest speaks volumes for me.

I genuinely believe that this sort of attention will actually harm the point, but I really really do hope I’m wrong.

I think Writers is correct insomuch as that it won't work for everyone but that's why a mix of approaches is needed. And anything that smacks of 'stunt' has to be followed up straight away with something serious.

Btw the Independent covering of it was far superior of the other two.

You are fucking awesome Sir. You most definitely have more balls than Millwall.

I think the boobs are important. Those that feel uncomfortable with them, are proving the point. People can't even cope with breast/chestfeeding in public, alot of men will feel very uncomfortable with women baring their breasts in public no matter the banter amongst themselves.

They can’t cope with breastfeeding because the idea “their funbags” has a real biological purpose they have no part in them bothers them. The majority wouldn’t have a problem with a topless nubile woman wandering about.

Nuances are important.

I am really proud of you both, getting national coverage is fantastic. Now the rest of us need to do our bit by explaining to those who comment what the point is (if they haven't managed to get it yet).
I've started following a lot of people around this topic on twitter and was pleased to see there is a Green Party group (may not be official) as I was disappointed to read their blurb on this.

The Independent? Have you a link?

I find The Independent coverage shocking towards women- they use “cis” in their headlines for starters.

The initial coverage has been about the boobs but has introduced people to a serious argument. The follow-up coverage on Sky News and The Independent has been very good at getting the point across.

twitter.com/Raspberry_Saucy/status/975313048603897857?s=20

You might like to ask Stonewall why they do the same, Nicola.

I think it will point some people in the right direction and they’ll start joining the dots with a bit of luck. It gets the issue out there amongst the general public. Heck, something has to because the TRAs are living in some kind of weird world that wider society have no idea about, yet they’re influencing policy.

And well done! You are legends. If i ever meet either of you I'll buy you a huge drink

Sorry flowers aren't very manly, have a

I've posted the petition link to the Sunday Times article comments.

Erishigal - this is what Raspberry Sauce is saying on Twitter, what on does it mean?

Seems to be based in a conflation of Paraphilic Transvestism with Gender Dysphoria.