Man Friday hits the news!

[NotAWhacktivist]

This doesn't seem to have been posted yet. Hats off to this women (she has posted here about her efforts)

Topless swimmer wades into trans row
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/9a8e437c-2a35-11e8-8cd0-05c64066237c

Spitting at someone is an assault, and a hate crime. If you don't feel abler to report it, that's how women feel about reporting men who are causing problems in women only spaces.

Why not campaign for a third gender neutral space instead?

As is being demonstrated, males identifying into women's spaces at their say so isn't something that can be preserved for people with dysphoria. Other male people can easily abuse it. So then they can come into women's spaces and spit and jeer and perv at TIMs and women alike. Progress!

m1randa1..... your DD may be a wonderful person... however many transgender men aren't and sadly -as you will see from the new Stonewall definition - now includes crossdressers and fetishists, rather than just the transsexuals of old... so is a VERY wide group that now includes misogynistic men, often with AGN.... who are deeply threatening to women and girls.

Sadly - if your DD is an old-fashioned transsexual - they are losing out in this current debate as much as women and girls, looked down on as truscum....

I would invite you to start reading more of the comment on here... you will find some truly shocking things... sadly, because the transgender umbrella has now become so very wide and includes deeply unpleasant men......

So please please read up on these boards about what is really happening - or read Miranda Yardley (a wise transsexual) website....

And then come back to talk to us. As a mother, you clearly want the best for your DD.... who would not?

Being the parent of someone who identifies as something doesn't give you any special insight into that thing. Surely this is obvious?

Evidence of spitting?
Evidence that self identified transwomen differ in any way from men who don't identify as transwomen? Other than in what they say they are, obviously.

What is incredibly sad is that you feel equipped to judge a group of women who you know so little about.

Still throughout history misogynist men and their enablers have always found women to scapegoat for all their problems. This is just the latest

I identify as the parent of someone who identifies as trans, and I identify as the daughter of someone who identifies as trans, I identify as the lover and best friend of someone who identifies as trans, hell I identify as a person who identifies as trans and I identify as the foremost expert in the whole world ever on the topic of people who identify as trans.

Do I win? Or is there a bit more to it than who we know and what they feel inside?

Excellent post Joan.

I was pleased to hear the PM broadcast and to see the DM coverage (mostly). I think it has been effective - and conveys a serious message.

M1randa1 I have no desire to exclude trans people - I have every sympathy with young people struggling with their identity and sexuality. As a parent, m1randa1, I totally understand your desire to protect and support your child.

But as a parent and a woman I also want to protect my daughter, other women, young girls and children through providing safe spaces - whether changing rooms, prisons, hospital wards, girl guide camps. I think I need more than self ID to provide that reassurance and safety.

How do we do that? It seems impossible to discuss this without deeply misogynistic and violent abuse. I am insulted by people who say they are women name calling, insulting and labelling as 'cis' those who are born so, and have lived with discrimination all their lives. If you don't accept our biology and how powerfully it determines our identity - you simply dont understand us. Its not how you dress, makeup or mannerisms, its visceral. We cant change that. Too many periods, miscarriages and hot sweats to be told it ain't real.

And remembering my own views and outlook as a teen and student, I think very differently now than I did then. How many of these young people will change, develop and grow - don't we just need to let them be whomever they want to be without fighting over labels and access? Diversity.

The reaction of the men at Hampstead showed how strong their feelings were. Why would that be more allowable/acceptable than women's feelings? Police called for two women entering a pond, but women told to shut up the other way around.

I do have to say that most of the men's responses to the Daily Mail article thoroughly depressed me. After the joy of the repeal of the 8th amendment, to see the ignorance of those who hadn't read the article (how would they like it the other way round?), and the naked misogyny (want do these bitches want next?) deeply depressed me. I guess thats the problem with reading the Daily Mail. Jeez - we have a long way to go women!

I don't buy this idea that transgender women are men with problems. I think people working with the transgender community understand that it isn't a mental health issue it is a gender issue. Accepting them in the gender they identify is the battle faced now, just as women fought for the vote or homosexuals fought for decriminalisation. The attitude here is the luddite view of people who don't accept change and find petty reasons to object.

I have two other daughters. I protect them by making them streetwise, not banning transgender women from their spaces. The gooly man can wait outside the toilet or changing room and grab them, if that's what you're worried about.

The gooly man can wait outside the toilet or changing room and grab them, if that's what you're worried about
That doesn't make sense at all. What would a 'goolyman' (I presume you mean a sexual predator here) prefer? An open, public space with the possibility of being disturbed by a passerby or filmed on CCTV, or a closed confined space with no cameras. I think he'd prefer the 2nd one, don't you? So lets not give them a free pass to the enclosed space, eh?
Who has ever heard of a man trying to get into female toilets by dressing up as a woman. Men don't have to dress as women to self identify as women. What does 'dressing as a woman' even mean? Most of the young women I see wear skinny jeans and tshirts, pretty similar to what young men wear.

The attitude here is the luddite view of people who don't accept change and find petty reasons to object.

That is pretty dismissive when many of the women objecting will be rape victims or survivors of domestic assault and when we live in a culture where there is so much male violence.

And do you realise that the Trans Rights Movement is very homophobic at worst?

m1randa1 I apologise, I should have started by saying that I feel sorry for your transgendered daughter if she has been spit on,threatened ir abused in any way while using public toilets or changing rooms. That really shouldn't happen to anyone. I just happen to believe that womens spaces should be thrown open to any man who self ID's as a woman, for whatever reason, in order to protect your daughter.
I think most people would be happy with small secure units (third spaces) for the use of anyone who feels unsafe using sex appropiate spaces.

Spelling mistake in my previous post. Meant 'shouldn't' instead of 'should'.

Teaching women to be streetwise inside womens safe spaces and teaching men they can ignore womens boundaries shows how broken society is now.
Young women are taught to be constantly on the alert because men wont respect their boundaries or take no for an answer, wherever they are.

Being female isn't a gender.

Gender is another word for sex roles i.e. the stereotypical roles associated with being a particular sex.

A man can identify as "preferring to act out a set of sexist cultural stereotypes designed to oppress and repress women" if he wants, but women have every right to call that what it is and object to it.

Expecting women to just 'accept' men walking all over us is gender in action.

m1randa1

Ffs
Yes , let’s teach our dds to be ‘streetwise’ instead of providing them with safe spaces where they can get undressed, sleep or unrinate.

What if they’re not strong enough, what if they’re scared or intimidated? Will that be the mothers fault for not teaching them properly or the dds fault for not being smart, quick or strong enough?

I pity your children and any other female that has to be around you and your ignorance.

www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/happened-spent-day-identifying-man/

Daily Telegraph today.

Yes, so 'streetwise' that the sound of a pronoun makes them weep and dial 999.

I think we need to accept feminine boys, not tell them that they are girls.

Female children should be taught to be 'streetwise' i.e. to cope valiantly and on their own outside with sexual objectification and male violence, while male children should be protected and given safe refuge to hide behind women from pronouns and reality.

No double standards here at all.

My daughter is not a feminine boy, she is a transgender girl. I think it is very offensive to state otherwise when you obviously know nothing about it!

Well done to those involved in this...
It is important to remember that a lot of men will also support this action (I am a bloke - as are others on here) - ultimately this has two core drivers:

• maintaining the truth - boys are born boys / girls are born girls, just because they feel something different can not redefine biology - that is to devalue truth and fact - to say that truth can be whatever you want it to be
• protecting individuals - there is nothing wrong with women wanting / needing their own space - and equally for men, and equally having space for both - that respect for individuals, for their own space is important - and needs to be preserved...

ultimately a man may feel 'feminine' but that doesn't make them a woman - or vice versa - even with surgery, they are simply a man with surgery! There are black and white facts in life - you can't take a dog and say it is a cat, you can't take a rose bush and say that it is a horse even with surgery it simply becomes a topiary horse! - so equally, if you are born male, then you become a man; born female and you become a woman - if at some point that person's emotions / thoughts / preferences / etc. align more closely with societal norms for the opposite, then that is fine they can be a 'feminine man' or a 'masculine woman' or however they wish to describe it - but it doesn't change biology - the man isn't a woman, and the woman is not a man - that makes no sense and can't happen...

and it is worth remembering that most men are perfectly normal (ish!) and would totally support maintaining fact / protecting individual's space etc. so those who are posting that to make this work means invading and attacking everything male - no, it doesn't, in the same way that it is / would be wrong to attack everything female...

there are a few (very small minority) people who have some very strange ideas, and who have learned that if you make enough noise and misuse words carefully you can persuade those in charge to change to your view of life - those people and their message are the issue - the people running organisations who take their view on un-considered and just accept it are an issue - but the vast majority of men do not agree and are not an issue...

so - from the male perspective, total support for those involved in #manFriday

I find it incredibly offensive that women and girls are supposed to accept as female any male regardless of their age who adopts some of the sex stereotypes imposed on women and girls. Doing this is an attempt to confirm that those stereotypes are true about us which is a direct insult to every one of us who doesn't fulfil those roles and who have fought against this sexism directed at us.

I know intimately what it is to be female in our society, and although they may empathise with women, no male does know this.

I do not believe everything people say about themselves on the internet no matter how much they may call for sympathy for their position. Either you have an argument or you don't. 'You are being unaccepting of my feelings' is not an argument, especially when you have been told @m1randa1 that your position is also inconsiderate of the feelings and rights of women who disagree with you. We are an oppressed group and a protected class under law and your attitude is in breach of our rights and especially of girls under 18's rights who have increased protection as a discriminated against and vulnerable group.

I am sick of our rights and especially the rights of girl children being ignored by people who say they are acting ahead of new legislation which has yet to be debated or take into consideration female people as a primary stakeholder group on the issue of gender.

You do not get to guilt trip us about our boundaries. You are asking for us to move our boundaries for the sake of your feelings. Get used to women saying No.

It's just not worth arguing with your 19th century ideas and ignorance. Too much small-minded old fashioned thinking on here. It is depressing that in todays world there is such a lack of understanding and acceptance. Mind you, I'm just a feeble, faint-hearted woman, so, as this was common thinking for centuries, it must be accurate!

What mosts of the posts on here show is that most of you cannot accept anything that goes against your own narrow experience of life. You don't care who it affects, as long as it doesn't affect you.

You don't care who it affects, as long as it doesn't affect you.

How many times do we have to budge up, how many more minorities will we be asked to shelter. When the class of women holds absolutely everyone, it's no longer relevant.
Seems that is the plan.
Well sorry I won't make it easy.