Law Society virtue signalling

[MissBeehiving]

The Law Society awards are open for nomination at the moment and depressingly, the “Woman Lawyer of the Year” is now open to anyone identifying as a woman. So the award designed to celebrate the achievement of women in the legal profession, is now fair game for men.

www.lawsociety.org.uk/events/excellence-awards/categories-and-criteria/

I agree with many PPs and merrymouse

I think it’s essential to have clear law and policies in this area. Which is why the Law Society are acting appallingly here.
It’s not ok to give up on women’s single-sex spaces, opportunities, awards because of some thoughtless or misguided sense of being equal ops.

That taking of women’s prizes and opportunities and ’opening them up to ‘anyone who IDs themselves as a woman’ isn’t inclusion, it’s just pretending that there was a level playing field to begin with, which is utter bullshit. Especially at work for women. The odds being stacked against women was why those single sex spaces and opportunities were started in the first place. It’s the opposite of inclusive to remove those things from women. Taking nothing from men, generally the more advantaged sex at work.

Would everybody who is so ‘inclusive’ say we should remove all workplace measures for people with disabilities or people from ethnic minorities or lesbian or gay people, because that support or protection is not inclusive? No. So why do women just have to inclusively welcome the destruction of the minimal protections we have?

My workplace is keen to virtue signal about its ‘inclusiveness’ like a lot of other places but without doing any of the actual work with the staff or setting out of proper policies to BE genuinely inclusive.

End result: we have an (I think AGP) male colleague in the women's toilets on his say so, which I can do fuck all about.
That’s how men who give the appearance of acting out an appropriative sexual fetish about their idea of ‘womanhood’ (which is sometimes quite inappropriately sexualised for work in its expression) can be in the cubicle right next to mine.

When I am dealing with my periods, pissing audibly or trying to sort out my tights etc etc. I just don’t want to do that next to male bodied people, however nice or harmless- seeming they are.
I also resent the double standards- if me or my female colleagues turned up dressed in a sexualised way at work one day, we’d get taken aside by HR for a talk.

I can’t talk to HR or to my colleagues about any of this in case it gets me into trouble for bullying.

No one is saying that a TIM doesn’t deserve an award. What they are saying is that they shouldn’t get THIS one. No TIM will ever go to work pregnant. Pregnancy is pretty tricky to hide, even if you wanted to, but once people have seen you pregnant they make various assumptions about you and these do affect your career. Likewise, if you are a woman who is married and between 25-40, people will assume you are likely to get pregnant and this is also likely to affect your career.

No TIM is likely to be a role model to a female the way a woman is.

A TIM will face other hurdles. There could be other awards that this would make them qualified for.

I think it’s essential to have clear law and policies in this area. Which is why the Law Society are acting appallingly here.

They do have clear guidance and it recognises social transitioning (i.e. living openly in their chosen gender) as distinct from medical transitioning. So essentially, self-ID.

The argument that women should accept erosion of initiatives designed to redress the imbalance and disadvantage that they suffer on the grounds that “it’s worse somewhere else” is no platforming at its very worst. Every person should be speaking out to address inequality wherever they see it and that’s what lawyers have always been at the forefront of.

The Law Soc award is a public recognition of a successful female lawyer. One who has achieved substantially in her career. It is absolutely pathetic to hear other women minimising that by saying that she only got it because of “networking” and “knowing the right people”.

Longines I think we are saying similar things?. I dont think a policy in itself sorts out the problem, if that policy advocates self ID. What I’m saying is, I am in a workplace without a policy and without any discussion of these issues at a senior level that would go with such a policy. So I don’t have any formal system to question the self ID in my workplace. There is the chilling effect of self ID already happening, I could be accused of bullying if I complain. I recognise that the same chilling effect could be in place if there is a policy that supported self ID (because I would be swimming against the party line to challenge it) but at least there would bea formal mechanism for challenging a policy. And we need a much clearer legal steer about when equality act protections on single-sex spaces can be used so people running workplaces and services can be clear about when they can keep them single-sex.

It is absolutely pathetic to hear other women minimising that by saying that she only got it because of “networking” and “knowing the right people”.

If you don't think that profile-raising is a part of 1) advancing a career in law or 2) being recognised with an award, then I would suspect that you're not in the industry or a tad naive.

Networking is a big part of being a lawyer in private practice and it is time-consuming for the individual and their firm (and often costly) to apply for an award, so the chances are that many of the women working their arses off to juggle everything won't apply anyway.

To see these awards as some sort of meritocracy where the women quietly beavering away will magically get recognised without a lot of hard work going into their self-promotion is silly.

It is absolutely pathetic to hear other women minimising that by saying that she only got it because of “networking” and “knowing the right people”.

That wasn't what was said. A couple of posters made comments about the validity of all these types of awards.

I am struggling to follow the logic of the argument you’re making there Longines

Does networking help your career? Yes undoubtedly.

Is networking the only reason why these women win awards? No, they win these awards because they are very good lawyers. And to suggest that the awards are not made on merit is inaccurate.

I do have some experience in this area, being a solicitor. My team have won multiple awards for their work. We don’t network at all, but we are good at what we do and can evidence that and that’s why we win.

I agree with you @Mouthtrousersafrocknowandthen

If anyone identifying as a woman can enter then no point, because it's unfair, and because it's pointless.

I hope all women solicitors avoid that category like the plague. Instead I hope women, females, are put forward for all other categories and do brilliantly.

My best ever boss was female, my best ever doctor is female, if I had a solicitor I see no reason to expect a female could not do a brilliant job.

I understand why we have these women categories but it's now redundant, it's a joke. I am not complaining about trans women with GRC I am saying self I'd is bullshit and anyone who thinks you can self id into being a woman has such a tenuous heap on reality I would not want then to be legally representing my cat, let alone me!

I hope all women solicitors avoid that category like the plague. Instead I hope women, females, are put forward for all other categories and do brilliantly

I agree. I think it is a redundant category , not because a trans woman might enter it but it shouldn't be there at all.

Grasp on reality.

ChattyLion, I see what you're saying and I agree that it's a lot easier for everyone if there's an actual policy in place to challenge as opposed to everyone being so scared of doing/saying the wrong thing that they just ignore it and wait until someone (likely to be a woman) is confronted with the issue and has to deal with an actual real life situation single-handedly and with no official guidance.

The point I was making is that the LawSoc is following its own guidance that it's been giving out to firms since 2015, so there's no inconsistency there.

I think you should ask HR to see the transgender policy as there clearly needs to be one (for everyone's benefit) in a situation where the issue is affecting employees.

Lass - I’m afraid that a poster did - see MrsBertBibby @19.21

I was being a bit tongue in cheek! Because we are not recognised as equal it may Stoll have some value. Do women solicitors want us to write in and complain.

I think men love including self iding trans women now. They can pretend to be inclusive while really it I'd still all male!

@Jon66 if it's all about inclusion why don't we include everyone in the best woman solicitor category? Oh yes because if everyone is included it is not really a category!

Lass - I’m afraid that a poster did - see MrsBertBibby @19.2

I took her comment to refer to all of these awards not just the one for

The Law Soc has a female vice president this year - Christina Blacklaws and it may be worth contacting her

I had already said I am in a Scottish firm- why would I contact the vice president of the Law Society of England and Wales about an award I don't support?

@ChattyLion

Brilliant post.

"The irony of the Law Society acting to be ‘ahead’ of the law."

Yes, they are taking the law into their own hands. How absurd. That shows they really do not recognise 'woman' as a material reality.

What's next?

I murdered a person but am self identifying as a person who committed man slaughter not murder! Fuck me, you could not make it up!

"But looking to the positives... Does this mean I can now identify as a solicitor and enter myself?"

Why not try.

"I mean I know it’s a long shot to win seeing as how I am a boring old ‘actual woman’ and all. But I do stuff to help other women and I am good at my job so once I identify as a solicitor i’m at least In with a chance right?"

I think someone should do this and get channel 4 to make a documentary about it.

Lass I wasn’t suggesting it to you personally but there are other solicitors on the thread.

I’m afraid that a poster did - see MrsBertBibby @19.2

Nope

MrsBertBibby I assume your friend is fully transitioned? If so, can I ask whether you are aware of the differences between your friend and the likes of Philip/‘Pippa’ Bunce who ‘self identifies’ on days when they ‘feel a bit female?’ He gets it both ways - with none of the disadavantages of being a biological woman trying to get on in her career with all the disadvantages her biological sex confers - but he can dress up in a frock occasionally, swoop in and win a women’s award!

Or do these differences have to be explained YET AGAIN to someone who lands in the middle of a thread shouting ‘bigot?’ We are well aware of the differences and it’s the ridiculousness of self-id that we’re discussing here. And not ‘squabbling,’ thank you.

Lass. It was never my cup of tea either, but now the men are included for their womanly achievements it's dead.

When I read the stuff about Phil Bunce explaining how he now reverse mentors the board about how to make his life better you can see the T track super clearly.

What has that go to to do with women (protected characteristic - sex)? Give him a T award for being gender fluid, this is what the Times Newspaper is celebrating with Phil's award. It's either a Trans (protected characteristic gender reassignment) in Finance award or an award for men (protected characteristic - sex)in Finance.

@thanksjaneshusbandatcaresouth

Completely agree but the law is key to self ID and so solicitors mobilising too on this is fantastic. There are 100s and 100s of ways in which this will impact people. Each one is someone's sphere of work or influence or personal life, and it's valid for everyone to reflect on the impact and feedback as much as possible.

Missbeehiving, congratulations on your team's awards. I'm not suggesting that they're not well-deserved.

The difference between the team and individual awards is that while the team awards are based on reasoning and evidence provided by the applicant, the individual awards require third party testimonials, press cuttings, etc. I'm not suggesting that the individuals who win these awards don't deserve them, but the testimonials they provide from third parties will carry weight with the judges, so the people who are either better at self-promotion and/or who happen to know the more persuasive influential people do have an advantage.

Missbeehiving, congratulations on your team's awards.

Congrats on your awards!
Great to hear your self belief too!