Is choosing to be a SAHM a feminist decision?

[user1471506568]

Ok so I'm a SAHM and would also strongly identify as a radical feminist although admittedly I still am learning about all of this. I understand that liberal feminism is more about the individual as opposed to the class movement so under that philosophy being a SAHM is an acceptable feminist decision but I'm confused about the rad fem stance.

I can see how from a financial perspective being a SAHM is a bit of a backward step for feminism, but this is such a narrow view and I don't think money is the only measure of worth . In fact it strikes me as an extremely patriarchal measure where the balance will always be tipped to men earning more due to women having children.

I would be really interested in people's views on this. Can I be a radical feminist and a SAHM or am I letting down the class movement?

NB: Please don't take this as negative judgement of any working mothers as I respect everyone's decision to do what's best for them.

"I do subscribe to the theory that biology can impact a mother's decision to stay at home so I therefore would expect SAHP stats to be skewed towards women staying at home."

Even if you believe this (which I don't) it is just 1 factor, which on its own is not enough to explain the massive skew in statistics. You have to acknowledge the other factors at play here, surely ?

" Lots of people are dependent on their partners for lots of things over their lifetime including working parents not earning enough to support themselves. There just seems to be a particular aversion and disdain to a SAHM's dependence that doesn't exist in relation to other forms of dependence."

Because it's so skewed towards women, and it often puts them in a vulnerable position. This makes is a feminist issue.

I am a SAHM. I control all the money. Literally. Husband doesn't even bother accessing it, if he wants to buy something for himself, he tends to ask me to do it. He has no interest in how much money we have in the bank account as long as all bills are paid. He has no access to online banking because he can't be arsed with it.

He earns money, I manage it accordingly.

When at home, he takes over the childcare. I sit down and don't lift a finger.

OTOH I do all the housework.

Home life is nice and quiet and peaceful and as far as I'm aware, nobody is willing to change the way things are.

And if we split up? I'll be just fine.

I am also a radfem. So there.

Of course I see how socialisation and discrimination impact women's decisions on this and other issues. This is part of the reason I would identify as a radical feminist.

I think maybe the difference between us is what we view to be the core reason why I and some (not all) women choose to be SAHMs? I view it as a decision basically rooted in biology that actually hasn't been strongly influenced by the patriarchy. In fact I feel that there is a lot of pressure in society to be a SAHM and equally to be a WOHM. As previously covered current working practices are not compatible with family life and it can seem simpler to just be a SAHM. However you are not renumerated for being a SAHM, you are financially more vulnerable and the SAHM has no social status. All these factors work towards encouraging women back into the workplace.

In my eyes me being a SAHM is defying what is the norm in our still patriarchal society and fulfilling a strong urge I have to stay at home with my kids. A bit of an up yours to the patriarchy. I can see though that of you reject that biological argument and think that my desire to stay at home has come from the socialisation etc associated with living on a patriarchal society then I can see how choosing to be a SAHM is not feminist at all.

I don’t really understand the biology point once children are at preschool age. I genuinely see nothing about my biology that pre disposes me to be at home then more than my children’s father. It’s very very different to post natal and the early breastfeeding months, when biology definitely comes into it.

I think it’s personal preference perhaps but not “biology” which sounds like it’s outside of your control.

I work pt now as no children at home really, except dd some weekends and holidays.

As a sahm for 25 years I believe we got the balance right.
I managed the money, still do, even the business.
My dh was fortunate enough to be at home a lot as self employed.
So when it came time for me to study he changed his work to fit in with this and was at home for the kids.
As he was coming in early hours of the morning he did most of the night feeds when they were babies and also did more than his share of household tasks.
I suppose he worked what would be considered as pt out of the home, and it helped that he was able to be flexible.
I would be fine if we split and could buy a small house outright, as could he. I spend what I like when I need to, and have certainly never been given housekeeping, or pocket money. It's all family money, wherever it comes from.
We have never been rich, and relied on tax credits for most/all of the time, so it's not like I've spent his money in a life of luxury, it's usually essentials or school fees.
I'm glad I was at home all those years, and wouldn't change a thing.

I think saying biology is the reason women leave work is insulting to both sexes. Obviously in the first few months it makes sense. But after? Do men not feel sad to miss out on seeing their kids more then? Are we just driven by hormones ?

Yes, I feel it is. As a woman I exercised my choice to leave work, stay at home and raise my children. I also pursued higher education during this time. & I didn't refer or defer to anyone regarding doing this.

I don't define my worth and value via working outside the home. I've the right to choose what is important to me, just as others have the right to choose what's important to them.

Immaculate conceptions don't exist.. 2 people make a baby. If one is going out to work, be it the man or the woman, then they aren't working 'for' the other adult..One is supporting the family within the home, the other is supporting the family outside the home. It's about balance.

If all had the courage of their own convictions in at least trying to make choices happen then there wouldn't be this constant browbeating and over focus re SAHMs. If every woman who had a baby then put baby into paid childcare (& I'm not against any woman who does that, it's not my business) then there'd simply be something else to moan about, to do with mothers. Women are the easiest scapegoat targets.

If a woman over the road chooses to stay home with her baby it doesn't impact upon me. I'm not invested in pulling reasons out of the air to pretend that it does.

I think raising children well is so important, but as you said it is not recognised or paid well. I do think you should choose, but also you need to protect yourself financially. When you become dependent on another person you become vulnerable and you are at the mercy of a man. It’s this power balance that has kept women down for so long. I don’t mean this means you should work, but I do think it means that raising children should be given a much higher status and there should be official payment and protection for what you do. How that could work I don’t know! Some sort of contract? Training opportunities?

oranges no, I don't think they do feel sad for the most part. I think most men who work full time feel they see quite enough of their kids.

At a macro level though, I do think it it does matter (hugely) that talented women are opting out of the workforce. Opting out of decision making and leadership.
How many SAHMs had a SAHM themselves I wonder? I didn’t so it’s never occurred to me to not earn a living. The role modelling and socialisation we are exposed to as children can be quite powerful. More so than “biology” I think.

Oranges - why is it offensive to say that the two sexes have a different biological response to having children? I haven't said men don't care about their kids or women must be slaves to hormones but I do think there is a biological difference that goes beyond a few months. I understand the reason feminists feel the need to shut down discussion on biological differences as they have historically been used against us and to keep us in our place. The problem is by denying any and all differences usually results in an assumption that everyone should be the same which usually means everyone should act and want the same as a man.

My DH would love to be at home with the children, most men I know would, if money was taken out of the equation.
Here’s a test, those of you who are SAHMs, ask your partner if they would swap roles with you if your income and future earning prospects exactly matched theirs.
Men don’t necessarily not want to be a SAHP, but they are also socialised and role modelled to grow up and earn a living. They have less choice than women in this aspect of life.

My DH doesn't want to be a SAHD, it's not a financial thing. He just doesn't have the same desire to do it and believe it or not, thinks that it's a harder role on a day to day basis than his job. He loves the kids and would like more time with them but not be a SAHD

Haven’t read the whole thread as it’s infuriating this discussion is in feminist chat and is panning out the way it was about half way through.

My understanding of radical feminism is that the radical bit is to change the way society is fundamentally set up so that women are in the centre of it with men. So you would be paid to sah in a rad fem world because an equal society would value childcare and would see it as worthwhile work.

I sah because I was made redundant on maternity leave - could it be a more feminist issue? 1000s of women are put in my position every year. My mum worked out of the home from when I was 6 months and my dad sah or I went to cobbled together childcare. I have no issue with working or sah.

It’s so much more complicated than ‘choice’ and who’s being a ‘good’ feminist or role model for their kids. I hope my dc think I am a good mum when I work and when I sah as neither of those things has any bearing on how much I love them or how much I want the best for them, as I imagine is the case for nearly all parents.

If dh leaves me then I’m fucked to an extent and will have to get whatever job would have me that can pay the bills and fit round wrap around childcare. I have qualifications and experience coming out my arse but while the world of work does not have to acknowledge the world of wrap around childcare or the cost of nursery, you have to take what you can get. Another massive feminist issue. Another issue that gets simply written off by ‘choice’.

"How many SAHMs had a SAHM themselves I wonder?"

I had a SAHD (raised in a coal mining town, mum still had her factory job after the mines closed and dad was unemployed). Having a parent at home was hugely beneficial to me in terms of having a reliable parent who was there 24/7 and dedicated his time to educating and supporting me. That's one of the reasons I want to be a SAHM, because I want to give my DC the sort of parenting experience I received (and I can't afford childcare anyway, which is one of the reasons I had a SAHD myself).

I had a sahm, because ss wouldn't let her work, it was bad form for a woman to work and kids be latch key. It looked like the Dad couldn't provide for his family.
There was no such thing as men working from home then, shared leave, or flexible hours, we are so lucky now.
However, my Dad used to come home and take over at 5.30 whilst mum dished up tea.
Mum would then go out and do her volunteer charity work and her many women's guilds
My mum was an amazing role model.
You don't have to work to instil a good work ethic in your dc.

It was a biological decision for me.
I wasn't able to leave my dc with childminders, I just couldn't do it.
I saw it as my job to look after my own dc and gave up an established career to do it.

"Men don’t necessarily not want to be a SAHP, but they are also socialised and role modelled to grow up and earn a living. They have less choice than women in this aspect of life."

I think that women have the other side of the coin though. Most don't earn enough of a living (thanks to their socialisation and upbringing in our society and workplace sexism) relative to their male partner to give them the option to be the bread winner. So the choice that most women have is either SAH or work but in a secondary capacity to the husband and all the compromises and disadvantages that entails.

"I can see though that of you reject that biological argument and think that my desire to stay at home has come from the socialisation etc associated with living on a patriarchal society then I can see how choosing to be a SAHM is not feminist at all."

Yes this is where we disagree user. I'm glad we understand each other though!

"In my eyes me being a SAHM is defying what is the norm in our still patriarchal society "

I would argue it's going exactly along with the traditional patriarchal norms. Hard to see how anyone can argue otherwise.

@gillybeanz it sounds like you had a great setup with flexibility and sharing of responsibilities. Unfortunately not the case for most people

@MistressDeeCee if it's such a free choice why are the vast majority of sahp women? I don't buy it sorry.

Grumpy - In the current patriarchal society SAHMs are in the minority... I agree traditionally being a SAHM was the patriarchal norm but I don't think that's the case now. I think the patriarchy is keen that we now go out to work and pay our taxes whilst still being burdened with the majority of household/childcare responsibility. Hence the lack of financial incentives to be a SAHM from the state (arguably a lot of disincentives) and the way it's socially shunned.

"If a woman over the road chooses to stay home with her baby it doesn't impact upon me."

I agree that the action of this 1 person doesn't impact you. But the majority of fathers working ft and the majority of mothers working PT or SAH (which is the situation!) DOES impact the way that women are seen at work and in society. So that is why I will continue to moan about it as a feminist issue which perpetuates stereotypes and disadvantages all women.