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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The TERF Awards 2018.

152 replies

TERFragetteCity · 12/03/2018 18:16

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 13/03/2018 06:07

Madigan is 20 years old and in politics. Not a kid

I don't like Lily. I think Lily needs to take responsibility.

But i'm going to point this out, as its been bugging me today.

Lily wanted to be a woman. So was going to do a fashion degree. Nothing says style like a pink hoodie.

Its quite the change to go from that, to getting a taste of politics, suddenly deciding that Labour is your new family, and now you want to be an MP so you've switched to wanting to do a fashion degree.

Its difficult to get away from seeing a pattern of a very narrow view of the world, where one thing leads to another in an obsessive way.

Lily's twitter is also telling, given the sudden switch in chosen degree. Someone wanting a career in politics, just starting out today, given the profile they already have following 86 Twitter feeds? All of which are voices that Lily approves and agrees with.

Not only is this an echo chamber, and will hugely restrict Lily's general knowledge but it also makes Lily the perfect political tool.

Lily doesn't critically think. We know this. Shouting down your political opponents might get you so far in politics but only if you suck up to the right people.

You are only ever going to be someone else's useful idiot. If that someone else falls out of favour you are screwed because you've built your entire career off the back of just repeating other people, never learning to understand the opposition point of view and never acquiring a broad base of general knowledge. All you can do us repeat what others have told you.

Lily isn't aware of this. For all nastiness and ignorance and the damage done to work out of whatever issues Lily has. No matter how much of a MRA Lily is, Lily is being used. And eventually will become a victim of it. Perhaps deservedly, but a casualty no less. Its not down to Lily's age. This is not simple naivity and lack of experience. Its more than that.

I repeat again. Lily wants to do a politics degree and follows just 86 accounts on twitter. Go look through them. All labour. Lily is not capable of a single original thought. Lily gets fed an idea and scrambles it around and just repeats it. Lily can not hold a conversation with anyone outside of Lily's world. Lily's solution to that is to try and beat them to their way of thinking too or to see it as a personal affront.

I can't argue the point for any of the others.

As Lily gets older, I doubt it will change either. The entitlement isn't simply privilege manifesting itself. Its a coping strategy.

And sadly, if your chosen career path is going to be to represent people you have to be able to do more than that and have the potential to do more than that, and for mentors to recognise that limitation.

Why hasn't a single one of Lily's mentors said, 'you should improve your general knowledge by following opposition figures or x journalist?'. Instead all Lily is, is a rent a gob on Lily's life and identity. Its not even vacuous. Its worse than vacuous. It thrives off voyeurism of the car crash. Its reality star politics.

If Lily was in music, Lily would be in a boy band, with an image someone else had given them. A few years down the line, the fans are all gone and no one cares anymore. Unlike the others, who have ability in their own bullshit, Lily won't make money off the back of it. Someone else will.

Do I feel sorry for Madigan. Not particularly. But I do see Madigan in a different way.

AngryAttackKittens · 13/03/2018 06:49

Yay let's all mock some vulnerable young people and someone who clearly has some kind of mental illness (the one who thinks they are a child).

The only one of these people who's young is Lily Madigan, and even Madigan is not a child. Unless what you're saying is that in your opinion Stefoknee really is six because Stefoknee says so? If so someone probably ought to let Stefoknee's seven children know that their penis having parent has a time machine and used it to provide the sperm that helped create them.

Patodp · 13/03/2018 06:51

Great Video!
I ♡ PY

I really couldn't decide who the winner should be, they have all done such a superb job at peak transing the population... but I guess the right man won!

AngryAttackKittens · 13/03/2018 06:55

"My socialisation makes me cringe a bit at this. Seeing a bunch of awful people up there altogether, being mocked by a woman, is really, really uncomfortable. And yet, it's so politically important, that it is allowed to happen. That we be allowed to point and laugh. That we use the one weapon we have against men, that they hate us using the most.

The number of times women mocking men, has been presented as justification for those men murdering those laughing women, is so many that it cannot be counted. Literature, film, song, media, is full of the story that women mocking men deserve to be murdered by those men to punish them - that men's ego and dignity is so important, so sacred, that women must pay with their lives for attacking it.

I think that's why I feel so bad when I look at that video. The female socialised part of me winces at the cruelty of laughing at men. All the cultural baggage of watching that, elicits my pity for them and I feel a bit nonplussed about it all."

Can I just say, in the gentlest and most empathetic way possible, that it is possible to move past this socialization, and that doing so is one of the most freeing things that a woman can do for herself.

It's OK not to feel bad, honest. Men's egos and dignity and feelings aren't more important than women's, and learning how to say so and mean it is vital to feminism in all kinds of different ways.

TheGoldenBough · 13/03/2018 07:06

Can I just say, in the gentlest and most empathetic way possible, that it is possible to move past this socialization, and that doing so is one of the most freeing things that a woman can do for herself.

I have to say, I've never really personally understood this aspect of female socialisation. There are a couple of reasons for this but the upshot is that I find it the most fascinating, and wildly infuriating, aspects of most of the threads on here.

I would also say that lacking in it has caused me real problems in real life too and I've been punished and bullied for not being the right sort of women or responding apppropriately "as a woman" - generally not doing 'woman' properly... So I can imagine that it's not easy to break out of it if you do do it.

Not really of any relevance to anything but I think about it everytime I read about women putting up with shit becaise of this socialisation to be nice.

AngryAttackKittens · 13/03/2018 07:16

the upshot is that I find it the most fascinating, and wildly infuriating, aspects of most of the threads on here.

For me too. It took a while to figure out why other women were reacting to things the way they were, but once you do see it it's obvious. I'm actually glad that my parents somehow managed not to pass on that particular aspect of how girls are meant to act when I was a kid, but I agree that it can cause a lot of pushback. Still think I'm better off without it looking at the big picture though, and I've seen friends work their way through it and come out the other side caring a lot less.

AngryAttackKittens · 13/03/2018 07:19

To be clear - I can remember other adults who weren't my parents attempting to install that sort of "you can't say that, it will hurt that boy's feelings/pride" reflex when I was young, it just didn't take because my parents weren't doing it too. Possibly I was just an exceptionally stubborn child, but I think my mother responding to the attempts of other adults to socialize me that way with eye rolling and sarcasm was a big part of why it didn't stick.

Cunstancemarkiewicz · 13/03/2018 07:28

I never had that kind of socialisation either; if anything I've had to tone myself down to behave like a "normal woman" . I feel no natural instinct to be nice to these creeps because they are horrible and a real threat to women's rights.

TerfsUp · 13/03/2018 07:28

Although India Willoughby was hideous on CBB, I think she's partially on our side.

I disagree. IW is against sex-neutral changing rooms because they take away from IW's validiation as a woman - it has nothing to so with supporting women as a group.

AngryAttackKittens · 13/03/2018 07:31

Yeah, that. I very much doubt that India has ever done or said anything for selfless reasons.

AngryAttackKittens · 13/03/2018 07:33

Also I'm glad the video was posted because I've mostly seen Shon Faye quoted in text form, and a live action version really brings home what an angry person this is and how that influences the things that Shon says. Enraged by the idea of women disobeying him, basically.

Tralalee · 13/03/2018 07:37

RedToothBrush that's one of the best posts I've read on this issue and sums up my feelings about LM perfectly. Thank you

CuriousaboutSamphire · 13/03/2018 08:55

Who was the 'dick suckingest lesbian' I have ever met?

I found that truly disturbing...

LangCleg · 13/03/2018 09:08

The other thing to remember, aside from socialisation, is that it's not necessarily "bad OR mad". Very often it's "bad AND mad".

That somebody is mentally unwell and/or highly vulnerable does not mean they can't also be malign and pose a risk to others.

And, if a male person is posing a risk to women and girls by not accepting boundaries and consent, it doesn't matter if they are vulnerable and mentally unwell. The priority needs to be the protection of women and girls.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 13/03/2018 09:10

Good grief redtoothbrush Are you my DH? we had exactly that conversation last week - nowhere near as eruditely, blame the red wine - but we did question the depth and breadth of Lily's political knowledge, as well as the apparent utter lack of nous.

We wondered where the rest of the Madigan family were, why no one seems to have stepped in and given Lily some better advice? For that we did/do feel a bit sorry for Lily, but yes, Lily needs to take full ownership for what Lily does and says.

AngryAttackKittens · 13/03/2018 09:29

Exactly. Is Stefoknee mentally ill or has he just allowed his fetish to take over this life? Doesn't matter in that he's made the lives of his ex and his children miserable either way, doesn't make any difference in terms of how physically threatening he would be to encounter in a bathroom, locker room etc.

AskBasil · 13/03/2018 09:39

I totally agree with Redtoothbrush. I know Lily's a nob. Objectively, he is a nob, there's no denying it. But the description of him as a useful idiot, is spot on. In his own right he's an angry, tantruming young person and in time he will become an angry, tantruming middle-aged person whom everyone has stopped listening to because he just isn't that bright. Some political failures, like Peter Tatchell, are still being paid attention because he's intelligent, whatever you think of him and so he's got stuff to say. Lily OTOH doesn't have a hope in hell of being able to carve out any sort of media career once the Labour Party have dumped him.

Re the socialisation, I know it's possible to get past it, I just haven't managed it. I do cringe for these blokes, I do pity them. I don't know if I'd ever want to get past it in the sense of still being able to feel compassion for complete dingbats, while objectively recognising that they are in fact complete dingbats and are not entitled to my compassion - i give it as an undeserved (and in this case unwanted) gift. Grin

But also recognising that I have no right to require any other women to give them her compassion, because men are not entitled to our compassion or sympathy or care.

And also recognising that any feelings of compassion, must not be allowed to take priority over my actual rights as a woman - my compassion is not going to lead me into the path of pandering to these men. So my compassion for them is tempered by the knowledge that they are dangerous to me; they are threatening my rights and self-defence needs to be prioritised over compassion.

TheChampagneGalop · 13/03/2018 09:42

*Can I just say, in the gentlest and most empathetic way possible, that it is possible to move past this socialization, and that doing so is one of the most freeing things that a woman can do for herself.

It's OK not to feel bad, honest. Men's egos and dignity and feelings aren't more important than women's, and learning how to say so and mean it is vital to feminism in all kinds of different ways.*

Agree 100%

Peachyoghurt · 13/03/2018 10:57

Hey wims! :)

Glad some of you like the video.
I'm not mocking anyone, I'm celebrating them. Because they do the work for us in the end.

Stefonknee really advised members of the Canadian government. One even said that Stef was a good friend.
Anybody who calls him ill might as well call them all ill. Because none of these guys are mentally stable.

TerfsUp · 13/03/2018 11:23

Waves to PeachYoghurt.

Hi! Thought it was a great video.

You were instrumental in trans peaking me months ago through your excellent videos. Please keep up the good work.

Iminthecclubnow · 13/03/2018 11:26

Hi peachyoughurt! Thanks for your videos I have only just discovered them. The one about the bicycle is 👌 and your delivery is brilliant!

MickHucknallspinkpancakes · 13/03/2018 11:33

Wow Peach in the flesh so to speak.

Can I unashamedly say I luffs you?!

CuriousaboutSamphire · 13/03/2018 11:35

Well, hello peachyoghurt

Today has been a learning day, thanks!

CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 13/03/2018 11:41

I luffs you Peach!

Janie143 · 13/03/2018 12:19

Hi Peachyogurt I wish I knew you in RL Keep up the excellent work