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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The TERF Awards 2018.

152 replies

TERFragetteCity · 12/03/2018 18:16

OP posts:
Iminthecclubnow · 12/03/2018 19:38

I actually looked up that Stefonknee advising the government thing, as after I had said it I thought I had better back it up.

It seems that an MPP in Ontario (I think that is a member of parliament I think) called Cheri Dinovo thanked Stefonknee by name when Bill 33 went through (which I think is Canada's version on self id) as someone who had been active in helping to get the Bill passed.

I got that info from this page and the transcript from Dinovo is linked:

gendertrender.wordpress.com/tag/cheri-dinovo/

It does seem that Stefonknee and their activism was taken seriously enough at some point?

Tinycitrus · 12/03/2018 19:43

I really don’t think threads like this are at all helpful.

LineyOfArabia · 12/03/2018 19:47

I think exposing Stephoknee has a use.

SmurfOrTerf · 12/03/2018 19:54

I think so many people think Transwoman Hayley from Coronation Street, and have zero clue about the likes of Stephoknee.

Terftastic · 12/03/2018 19:57

Tinycitrus, I respectfully disagree.

This is a thread showing how batshit and 1984 the whole TRA movement is. It's an excellent satirical video - but check out her others, she's done plenty of factual, well argued stuff.

And this is a deserved winner indeed. Six year old girl my arse.

We are actually meant to sit in silence while this shit goes on. Do you think that's reasonable?

OlennasWimple · 12/03/2018 20:00

Thanks @Peachyoghurt!

LangCleg · 12/03/2018 20:10

I really don’t think threads like this are at all helpful.

Showing the type of people that self-ID allows into women's spaces and services isn't helpful?

What is helpful then?

AskBasil · 12/03/2018 20:10

In what way is this mocking these people?

What Peachyogurt is doing, is presenting them as they are. She hasn't dressed them up, edited them badly, misrepresented them in any way: she has merely taken bits of their own videos in the public domain and shown them.

You only see it as mocking, if you believe that these people are utterly risible. And if you do, that means of course, that you're a TERF.

TBH there's a part of me that agrees that this is wrong. I feel a bit uncomfortable about this parade of very strange people being held up for our observation. But here's the thing, while Peachyogurt is clearly holding them up for mockery, they themselves would not accept that that's the impact of this video.

We are not supposed to think these people are bizarre. We are supposed to accept them as expanding the bandwidth of what it is to be a woman, while at the same time believing them to be women just like us, albeit more beautiful, brave and inspirational than we could ever hope to be.

What then, is there to mock in this montage? Reasonable, sane, sensible people talking reasonable, sane, sensible stuff? How can one mock that? What is there to mock? It's transphobic and terfy to imagine that just seeing these people there on screen, must inevitably lead to mockery of them.

And then the other part of me thinks: look, it's very important to uphold the right of women to mock ridiculous men. That old Germaine Greer/ Margaret Atwood (it's attributed to both and some other feminists as well) quote, that women fear men will kill them, while men fear that women will laugh at them, is a major political issue.

My socialisation makes me cringe a bit at this. Seeing a bunch of awful people up there altogether, being mocked by a woman, is really, really uncomfortable. And yet, it's so politically important, that it is allowed to happen. That we be allowed to point and laugh. That we use the one weapon we have against men, that they hate us using the most.

The number of times women mocking men, has been presented as justification for those men murdering those laughing women, is so many that it cannot be counted. Literature, film, song, media, is full of the story that women mocking men deserve to be murdered by those men to punish them - that men's ego and dignity is so important, so sacred, that women must pay with their lives for attacking it.

I think that's why I feel so bad when I look at that video. The female socialised part of me winces at the cruelty of laughing at men. All the cultural baggage of watching that, elicits my pity for them and I feel a bit nonplussed about it all.

Not helpful? Maybe not. But complying with our socialisation, agreeing that this is too uncomfortable for us to go there - that's not helpful to our liberation.

Just throwing that out there.

TerfsUp · 12/03/2018 20:11

Hooray for PeachYoghurt! I love her videos.

It must have been hard to choose a winner.

AskBasil · 12/03/2018 20:12

Oh bugger, sorry for the rambling. I was sort of half thinking aloud and I just splurged without editing. Apologies.

TerfsUp · 12/03/2018 20:14

I would feel bad if PeachYoghurt talked about old-school transwomen, who were carrying on their lives like the rest of us are.

But she didn't - she highlighted the TRAs and their ridiculousness.

smashyourglasses · 12/03/2018 20:14

I found it incredibly helpful, and quite an education 🖒

Iminthecclubnow · 12/03/2018 20:14

I thought that was an excellent post AskBasil

SmurfOrTerf · 12/03/2018 20:17

Basil - you made some very good points.
I said to my DH that on IWD MNers were all going into men's toilets and watch them pee and laugh he said he wouldn't be going in public toilets that day (he knew I was joking)
but laughing at a man - sure that's literal fucking violence
as apposed to the real physical violence that women suffer

CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 12/03/2018 20:19

Yes actually I had managed to avoid actually seeing any of these people performing woman before. It's quite eye opening...

Ihavesomeballs · 12/03/2018 20:25

Some people deserve mocking, they come out with vile white and are held up as hero's. They are deluded, depraved and abominable........ Especially the one who identifies as a little girl! Have you read some of the white Lily Madigan writes??

AskBasil · 12/03/2018 20:44

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TheGoldenBough · 12/03/2018 20:56

I know he's not a very sympathetic individual, but someone as fucked up as he is is almost inevitably not going to be and the future he has in store, is so bleak that it's hard not to feel sadness for him.

Reap what you sow....

TERFragetteCity · 12/03/2018 22:54

I wouldn't shed tears for LM, he isn't shedding tears over the women whose details got published and who have been harassed just for knowing basic biology, who weren't even in the Labour party.

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thebewilderness · 12/03/2018 23:06

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Terftastic · 12/03/2018 23:16

Although India Willoughby was hideous on CBB, I think she's partially on our side. So that particular clip was maybe justified, but didn't she go on This Morning and argue against gender neutral changing rooms in Top Shop?

My personal opinion is that IW should come in women's changing rooms and toilets - she's had the full gender reassignment surgery. I would prefer for her not to yell at me over and over that she "is a real woman" though. She is a transwoman. I can't help seeing her behaviour on CBB as classic male entitlement - making it all about her, speaking over people, etc.

The awful thing is so many people don't realise how many men are calling themselves transwomen who haven't had any surgery or hormone treatment at all - and are essentially and completely male.

dorothyparka · 12/03/2018 23:33

let's all mock some vulnerable young people and someone who clearly has some kind of mental illness
You're right, we shouldn't mock them. Nor should we defer to, validate and give legislative credence to their irrationality.

LineysOfArabia · 13/03/2018 00:01

I hadn't seen that IW clip before.

I hate being shouted at like that. Dear God - all that shouting so loudly so that it will 'penetrate' through into Amanda Barrie's head. Horrible.

Terftastic · 13/03/2018 00:05

Lineys - that clip is a demonstration of the Twittersphere in a microcosm really - men shouting at women. Men defining women. Men telling women what woman is. Plus ca change.

Terftastic · 13/03/2018 00:11

By the way, if anyone ever asks me what my pronouns are, I will answer "Zuul" Grin

Never been asked yet though.