To ask the male equivalent of 'TERF'?

[liparistromboli]

Firstly to say that I have been following the trans debates on here for a while and my eyes have been opened so thank you for your intelligent and informed posts. I peak transed a few weeks ago and now go around in a permanent state of rage (so thanks for that too).

One thing that I have noticed is that much of the debate seems to be centred on the 'transphobia' of women. What never comes up is the 'transphobia' that TRAs experience from MEN (men who have decided to carrying on identifying as, well, men).

I have been talking to men of my acquaintance and the response to this seems to be a) ignorance - they have never heard of self-id and b) hilarity at things like 'lady penis' and c)That men identifying as women should not be allowed into women's refuges etc. This incredulous reaction has been across the board, from young men to old men.
How are the TRAs dealing with 'transphobia' from biological men who also don't agree with self-id etc? Or are they not interested in promoting their interests among men? Or is it only biological women they want to go after? Because men who have no interest in using ladies toilets etc. don't seem to be on board with this either.

In short, how do TRAs target 'hatred' among men? I find it very confusing. Are they scared of biological men who identify as men? Or are men also being 're-educated' like biological women? I think more men need to get in on this debate, as many don't even seem to know it exists. It just seems like a fight to the death between women and transwomen.

Oops. please insert 'mind' as required.

Graham Linehan gets some real shit for posting gender critical stuff. I've noticed though, they seem more disappointed in him. It's like they expected better of a man, especually a man who made programmes they found funny. I think gender critical women get more viciousness. There's a real sense that the TRAs are enjoying, almost to the point of ejaculating in their pants, shouting at a woman who hasn't embraced her role to support men and to defer to them.

*Especially

Sorry to go off on a tangent, but Graham Linehan went to a Roman Catholic school but is an atheist. You can see the parallels, can't you? He's someone who rejected a faith-based position.

Interesting, I too reject the cult of the religion I was born into. I do still believe in God though.

Because its a MRA movement and trans is a Trojan horse.

Exactly. The difference between an MRA and a TRA is simple: the first has an avatar of a frog, the second an avatar of an anime girl.

That's it.

Otherwise, they are exactly the same.

Which ones, if you don't me asking?

A craft beer forum which is very liberal/progressive.
A fitness/bodybuilding forum which is full of sexist meatheads...

Thank you. Might search for and check the beer one out.

It's UK Craft Beer forum on facebook.

I've noticed some gender critical men - their notable arguments are centered around anger at Trans people demanding certain pronouns and saying misgendering is an act of violence. These men argue this vilifying of those who can't or don't want to keep up with a language forced on them is unfair.

They argue it shuts down our common language to describe biology and therefore our freedom of speech when Trans people force people to use language they don't agree with like cis or them,their etc. by labeling people bigots or Transphobes.

I think it's a valid argument. Language cannot be dictated and to say someone is a bigot because they use the agreed language of descriptive biology is indeed infringement of freedom of speech.

Also because men's actual status as men is not really under threat there is less jeopardy for them and so less emotive arguments. If men as a category was under threat then we'd see a lot more trouble 't mill.

A society without a value system given from a supernatural source, is one that can run into nonsense like the trans movement.

I like the values given by Jesus, his two commandments and sermon on the mount. I don't follow any particular religion myself.

However if/when this is enshrined in law and Sam comes into the office as Sally the next day - will men also be punished for a hate crime if they guffaw at 'lady penis' or if they use the wrong pronoun?

Exactly this happened in my workplace. The person took the company to tribunal and lost. The men went back to normal because apart from taking the piss out of Sam/Sally it had no impact on their lives whatsoever.

BEHOLD! THE TROJAN HORSE:

Joseph J. Jackson @ShoelessJoe1910
In the same meeting, Bristol Student Union:
1) Banned radical feminists for being sex exclusionary;
2) Established a fitness programme exclusively for males.

Exclusion? It's ok if you are male.

redtoothbrush -

you couldn't make it up!

A society without a value system given from a supernatural source, is one that can run into nonsense like the trans movement.

I like the values given by Jesus, his two commandments and sermon on the mount. I don't follow any particular religion myself.

Completely agree.

I find it rather telling that the Spectator writer James Kirkup, who has written some excellent articles on this subject, is very clear headed on this and can see it for exactly what it is. Most men IME are either not interested ( as it doesn't affect them ), or pretty bloody incredulous. We really NEED more men to be aware of this and to try and get them on our side. They don't get the hate and shutting down that women do and we need all the allies we can get!

The male equivalent would be Transgender Identified Male Inclusive Males.TIMIM

BEHOLD! THE TROJAN HORSE

Two Flames @ msjenniferjames
Transcript of Venice Allan's Labour Party suspension interview.

Venice gets hammered for 'misgendering' transwomen but then the pompous man interviewing her slips up. He says Eddie Izzard is a transwoman but then goes on to refer to him as 'Mr Izzard'.

Thought-crime!

Really. We got it on tape. WIll publish my suspension interview when I get transcript. Or possibly do it as a podcast... for anyone who cba to listen. Son is a sound engineer may as well make use of him.

IME in real life most blokes think that the notion a man can become a woman is absolutely ridiculous and anyone who believes it is bonkers, and then they move on. Occasionally, they will try and shut down a woman who is talking about the subject with 'who are you to say who can and can't be a woman' but you only need to ask them if they would shag a trans woman and it reveals what they really think.

I think it's very interesting that it's almost exclusively TERFs who get shit about being vocal about this. It says everything.

A society without a value system given from a supernatural source, is one that can run into nonsense like the trans movement.

I do often wonder whether we humans actually need some kind of religion in our societies. I certainly can't see transgenderism as anything other than a patriarchal religion and it could well be that it has taken such swift hold in secularising Western societies as a (bad) answer to that intrinsic need.

In the transcript, the interviewer also calls one of the other TIMs 'he' - I think it may have been Heather? I laughed when I read it because using the Labour Party's own flawed logic, it means the interviewer will be the next person suspended and sent for 're-education'.