Biological SEX MATTERS. How many mumsnetters say "aye" to this campaign?

[SexMatters]

This document and campaign called 'Sex Matters' is a collaborative effort by amazing and knowledgeable mumsnetters on a couple of threads in FWR.

To move forward with the campaign, the organisations and individuals approached will need to know who is behind it, and the honest truth, is that mumsnetters have spearheaded it.

That does not mean that other campaigners can't get involved or even take greater ownership of it. But it needs a bio in order to introduce it to people and organisations to get started and I need your consent to describe the campaign this way: 'mumsnetter led' (and maybe even some suggestions for writing a bio on this thread).

So, you amazing gender-critical mumsnetters, do you say 'aye'?

Aye from me

Aye

A big AYE from me

AYE! absolutely 100% supportive.

Aye.

Aye
Although, I prefer kafka's phrase "same-sex" to "segregation".
Also I have been wrestling with the social "clubs, bars" segregation. Despite understanding why people would have strong feelings on not having members of the opposite sex those spaces, I just don't share them. My knee-jerk reaction was "but that's not fair, segregating SOCIALISING spaces". If you could expend slightly on why these spaces ARE important to some women (or men), when the safety aspect is not the obvious/main reason for a same-sex space, it might avoid an argument where a more casual reader could not have considered their concerns.

As far as I know, things like book clubs don't come under equality law.

An organisation has to provide things like rules and subscriptions to qualify under the law. And be made up of over 25 people.

So you can exclude who you like.

But I will doublecheck that. In case I'm thinking of something else.

The thing about intersex, I think means that it's not a third sex. If two intersex people have sex, they won't have a child who is intersex.

And yes, I believe there are several conditions considered intersex which don't result in infertility.

There was an incredibly helpful biologist on here explaining about why we are dimorphic and what binary means.

It does sort of put to bed this whole non-binary nonsense.

The reason humans are binary is because in order to reproduce you have to take a person from one of two groups. A person from one sex and a person from the other sex, otherwise it can't happen.

It's not about how they feel inside, or whether they feel like a man or a woman. That's not what it means.

It means that irrespective of how they feel, present, or think, they will never reproduce if they both come from the same sex.

Sex is binary because without the binary (a human of each sex you can't reproduce.)

So when people call themselves non-binary they are using completely the wrong term.

Aye

Yes. I have two disabled children who would struggle with the opposite sex for a lot of things, especially medical.

This is getting urgent.

Stonewall have a Facebook campaign up and running.

This could be Trump again.

Aye.

Thanks for doing this.

Would also prefer single-sex provision to sex segregation.

I have given 'same sex' v 'single sex' more thought and only 'single' implies segregation, as in 'singling out'. Same mean only 'similar' or 'like'.

I created a temporary version using same sex instead of sex segregation, but it is less clear, packs less punch and covers less ground, although it is less likely to make people flinch.

But since there were a huge numbers of 'ayes' who did not flinch at the word segregation - maybe you should be honoured and keep the word in. I'd be interested in your thoughts.

Also - don't be confused by the citations, I am working on them slowly and have miles to go.

Aye.

Slightly tangential, but this article (even with it's annoying conflation of sex and gender in the headline) is a strong call for research into sex-based differences in disease.

news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2018/03/experts-in-harvard-forum-examine-gender-differences-in-disease/

thanks CAAKE

Aye.

I agree with BlindYeo and others that 'single-sex provision' and 'single-sex services and spaces' are probably better than 'sex segregation'.

only 'single' implies segregation, as in 'singling out'

Yes, I think that's what makes it a strong term, SexMatters. It conveys the principle of segregation without using that word, which has negative connotations for many people. As well as the fact that it is in widespread use already (e.g., single-sex schools), so people instantly have a framework to slot it into.

I agree that 'same sex' isn't impactful, mainly because as you say it means 'similar or like', hence most people would only be familiar with it in the context of gay and lesbian rights, e.g., same-sex marriage.

Single-sex provision (or single-sex services and spaces) is also more precise as it emphasises that we don't want sex segregation for the sake of segregation, but in specific circumstances where it fulfils a legitimate need.

E.g.:

Title: Sex Matters! A campaign for the right to single-sex services and spaces

Intro: This campaign is about the right and freedom to choose. To have the option and provision of single-sex services, programs and spaces, where they fulfil a legitimate need. To not have that right taken away as part of universal unisex inclusion.

Subheading: Why is single-sex provision important?

It would mean the whole document would need to be rejigged, with 'the right to choose sex segregation' replaced by 'the right to single-sex provision' or 'the right to single-sex services and spaces',* and other language adjusted too, which I realise isn't very fair to you, especially when you have already produced a document that is splendidly clear. As someone noted upthread, potentially you could spend many hours rejigging this and it still wouldn't be exactly as you and everyone else wanted to it to be. That said, I've worked in marketing and I know how crucial language and framing can be when it comes to getting one's message across.

*I understand why the document was written using the language 'the right to choose' (bc we are not saying others don't have the right to unisex spaces if they want them), but the 'choice' bit is implicit in the demand for provisions, so if you change the wording then including it as well is tautological.

A big 'aye' from me. Thank you!

Aye from me too.

Aye

Aye

Yes

Aye, this is so badly needed

AYE (in capitals)

Delurking to say Aye. Thank you.

Aye!