TIM rights to sex with lesbians

[Janie143]

I have no words !! Sorry I can't seem to do clicky link gendertrender.wordpress.com/2014/08/11/dana-beyers-rotting-lesbian-iceberg/

What trans people need to realise is that being part of the opposite sex isn’t going to make all their self esteem and depression and rejection issues disappear?

I’m a conventionally attractive heterosexual woman.

Due to location/life circumstances etc, I now am single and not in a position to meet someone “normal” easily

I’d LOVE to have a lover to get excited over, to want me.

Of course I have some options but I feel Im not attracted to them and have nothing in common with them.

So it’s celibacy for now.

Sometimes I feel sad. I feel sexually excluded and like “no one I want wants me”.

Yes, I’ll even concede that inside im a bit jealous of women in lovely relationships (Meghan I’m looking at you )

But it doesn’t mean I am entitled to rant and rage at the kind of men I DO want and force them to have me?

Or think that if I stuffed a pair of apples up my knickers and got a buzzcut I could force attractive gay men to want me?

Not having sexual options right now isn’t a breach of my human rights

It’s just the way life circumstances are for me. I don’t complain IRL, it’s something
I might be secretly sad about but there’s more to me than sexuality.

That’s where I think (some) trans activists are coming across as entitled lunatics.

Most women don’t want
to have sex involving dominating a weird fetishy man in a dress

Most men don’t want to go on an online date and meet someone who looked good in a cleverly lit selfie but who has a penis and a deep voice.

So transwomen are basically going to have to share the emotional and sexual experiences of real women

which include NOT getting the sexual attention they “want” and feel entitled to (which we generally tend to tolerate without whining)

Most women don’t want
to have sex involving dominating a weird fetishy man in a dress

Do they want dominating? I didn't know that. Is part of the fetish to wear the female clothing during sex?

I'm quite interested in knowing more about this fetish ... I don't think I'll google it, though!

Time40, fetishistic cross-dressing is strongly associated with masochism, and may be an outgrowth of masochism, in that men who like being dominated and humiliated see being a 'woman' as the ultimate state of degradation and submission, so they get sexually obsessed with artefacts of femininity, such as lingerie and lipstick.

You can see this very clearly if you look at any of the 'sissification' porn sites, where men are 'forced' to act out fantasies of being submissive little girls, dumb bimbos, etc. It's all rooted in misogyny.

Yes, I peaked when I realised what I intellectually thought of was a “alternative clothing preference” in someone I knew was actually a fairly weird sexual fetish.

It wasn’t about just “wearing a dress against societies wishes” (the way I wear trousers and have short hair)

It was about being seen as a “girl”. And finding (flimsy and desperate) evidence that everyone saw him as a girl and having ongoing fantasies in which he was being sexually objectified as a girl (and then getting angry and needy and manipulative and depressed because, you know, a bloke in a dress is a bloke in a dress to all onlookers)

And not just a “girl” but a porn fantasy of a girl: a teenage, nubile, sexually provocative, sexy, silkily dressed one who was an “object of desire” - big manly men wanted to gang bang him and women wanted to put makeup on him.

Marie Dean, the prisoner that went on a hunger strike because they were in the men's prison... Filmed himself in "solo sex acts " while wearing lacey knickers belonging to his teen neighbour...

Wearing the clothing seems to be a common theme amoungst AGPs.

Pilateszoon well written post.

The combination of hate and envy and lust is truly the biggest ever turn off for me. It's beyond that actually, it's disturbing.

And this combination of hate, lust and envy is concentrated towards Lesbians because they see them as women who they cannot access.

Again as someone said up thread, once you see this, you cannot unsee it.

Excellent post Pilates. I am in the same position - due to the onset of disability - but I'm not whining at Sean Bean, telling him he HAS to sleep with me as it's disablist.

For someone who doesnt get involved with this stuff (not sure how to thrase it other than stuff) and for someone who is ignorant to this, mainly out of choice, i fear once i go down that rabbit hole i wont crawl back out, abd because admittedly i dont understand all the phrases and main points, this actually turned my stomache. Im admittedly ignorant to all this but for anyone to think that thwy have a right to someones body for any reason is absolutely disgusting. I might be ignorant but im not ignorant to the point of thinking that there is nothing wrong in that chart and stuff. Its actually disgusting. Noone has the right to anyone like that.

This is a man being cheered for bad poetry about harassing lesbians

Hate, lust and envy right there

for anyone to think that they have a right to someones body for any reason is absolutely disgusting

I completely agree with this, but I think it's important to remember that because one lunatic said this (and a small group of others agreed with them), it doesn't represent the views of the majority of transwomen out there who just want to live their lives in peace.

I know transwomen whose marriages have broken up and who are sad they're not getting any, but I've never experienced any of this ridiculous behaviour IRL.

It's a very small portion of angry activists who are spouting this rubbish and they're not doing the trans equality movement any favours, but equally, people conflating this with 'what transwomen generally think' don't do women's rights any favours.

TRAs want a load of feminists to go round claiming 'all transwomen want to rape lesbians' as it makes these women look utterly ridiculous and results in those women being labelled transphobic, so that later, when those same women are being vocal about, say, a non-trans man self-IDing to get into a woman's space for sexual kicks, no-one listens to them.

Thanks for the further info, everyone.

@Pilateszoon, well said!

I'm in much the same general position re. access to dating options in spite of being conventionally attractive. Guess what? I'll live - and I see no need to emotionally blackmail men into dating me either!

Trouble is, Longina, those transwomen aren't objecting and saying "this is not me, this is not what I want". If it were only 'the majority' of transwomen affected (and yes, the few I know are just normal people trying to live their lives As fully and happily as they can - and who are quite happy to say that they had male bodies and now don't, but are not and never have been actual women) then I imagine we'd keep well out, or join with the quiet majority to bolster their objection to the vociferous minority. But it's not like that, is it?

The vociferous minority have taken over, and have their eyes on women's spaces and women's bodies and women's sport, and women's shortlists and women's funding and ......

Longines, sorry.

*that men who like being dominated and humiliated see being a 'woman' as the ultimate state of degradation and submission, so they get sexually obsessed with artefacts of femininity, such as lingerie and lipstick.

was about being seen as a “girl”. And finding (flimsy and desperate) evidence that everyone saw him as a girl and having ongoing fantasies in which he was being sexually objectified as a girl (and then getting angry and needy and manipulative and depressed because, you know, a bloke in a dress is a bloke in a dress to all onlookers)

And not just a “girl” but a porn fantasy of a girl: a teenage, nubile, sexually provocative, sexy, silkily dressed one who was an “object of desire” - big manly men wanted to gang bang him and women wanted to put makeup on him.*

They don’t want to be “women” at all.

They want the male fantasy of what a woman should be. Us real women ..well we aren’t womanly enough.

Longinesprime
These quiet respectful Transwoman just going about their lives are in a minority.

The likes of Riley, Danielle and Caitlyn "I'm a lesbian now" "your sexual preferences are transphobic" et al are ^really influential. Celebrated in fact.
Riley has millions of fans all applauding her "bravery".
You are not hearing hardly any Transpeople saying anything about how NOT ON this is. They all agree with it and share it about.

Thanks Jux. I can see what you're saying and I completely agree that it's awful how a small group of TRAs is actually fuelling transphobia, which adversely affects all the other trans people who don't subscribe to their extreme views.

I just think people are giving mad arguments (e.g. that lesbians should be forced to date transwomen, etc) far too much weight when it's obvious that a woman's right to say 'no' takes precedence over someone else's right to sex anyway.

I don't see how lesbians' (or anyone else's) dating lives are anyone else's business, and I find the debate about who lesbians should be having sex with ridiculously academic as it's not going to have any impact on what lesbians actually do (yes, I know, apart from a few uni students who are desperate to conform, which is normal anyway - I dated dudes at that age to fit in too, so I don't see that as particularly indicative of the shape of things to come - they'll find their own way).

To me, it feel like because lesbians aren't the property of the men, they're up for grabs and feminists and TRAs seem to be using us in this tug of war about what defines womanhood. It's great to debate that question, but to do it in the basis of who the lesbians should be dating in real life is insane. I'll date who I want, for whatever reason I want.

Also, there are lots of people who identify as bisexual, pansexual, etc so if TRAs are denying that there is anyone out there who might want to sleep with a transwoman with a penis, it makes them sound quite judgmental as they're assuming that people who date the opposite sex are heterosexual and that people who date the same sex are gay, when the truth is that many of those people will be bi or pansexual and won't have an issue with a penis.

"youtu.be/GanQNP_wHps

This is a man being cheered for bad poetry about harassing lesbians

Hate, lust and envy right there"

That guy is so creepy af. He admits to messaging lesbians. He calls cis women who talk too much bitches but wants sympathy because if he talks too much he's a man. Creepy creepy fucker.