Can Pro-lifers be feminists?

[DevilsAdvocate123]

I am personally pro-choice, but in my 60 years, I have encountered pro-life feminists. Many of which asked that many other feminists try to "revoke their feminist cards", since they are pro-life.

I've asked them if it were sexist to be pro-life, and they explained these points to me:

-They entirely believe in the equality of men and women
-The reasoning behind the pro-life stance has nothing to do with sex
-If men could bear children, their opinion of abortion would be the exact same, as the reasoning behind the pro-life stance has nothing to do with sex
-They want to save babies of all genders, as the reasoning behind the pro-life stance has nothing to do with sex

I'm a fairly reasonable person. I've had discussions with liberals that think socialism is evil, I've had discussions with gays that believe a private business can do business with whomever it chooses, and I've talked with gun rights advocates that staunchly believe in background checks. I like to hear people out. I get things.

In this instance, I believe I understand where the pro-life feminists are coming from when they say they are still feminists.

Should the feminist community embrace these people into the community and work together, or should these people be shunned from the feminist community and not welcome?

Squeekums-
Calling a pregnant woman a host, makes it sound like you are calling the unborn a parasite, like the person carrying it is in no way part of the reason it's there in the first place.

Nobody is "banging on" about it being "only" a foetus.

Lass can't speak for others, but while I believe abortion to term is the only logical position for a pro-choice person, I have no appetite for campaigning for a change in the law to increase limits - it's a fight we won't win. Would rather spend my time protecting the hard-won rights we do currently have

Absolutely.

Then take the baby out of the woman and let it live! What gives you the right to kill it?
And for all you people banging on about it only being a 'foetus', were you aware that 'foetus' is the Latin name for what we refer to as a 'baby'

Duh thats what abortion does, removes the fetus. Late term abortions usually mean the fetus is defective anyway and wont survive

fetus
ˈfiːtəs/Submit
noun
noun: fetus; plural noun: fetuses; noun: foetus; plural noun: foetuses
an unborn or unhatched offspring of a mammal, in particular an unborn human more than eight weeks after conception.
synonyms: embryo, fertilized egg, unborn baby, unborn child

fetus is UNBORN mammal actually

Lass - if a woman is choosing to abort that late, there is clearly a problem and the baby is unlikely to survive.

while I believe abortion to term is the only logical position for a pro-choice person, I have no appetite for campaigning for a change in the law to increase limits - it's a fight we won't win. Would rather spend my time protecting the hard-won rights we do currently have.

Absolutely agree.

I get tired of saying this but people seem to have forgotten or perhaps never knew.
Feminism is the political movement for the liberation of women. All women. Even the women who disagree and do not like the principles of Feminism.

^This

There are many often bewildered posts asking why women don’t see themselves as feminists. In all of those threads the question is put to the nay sayers, “do you support equality for women?” When they say “yes” they are told, “then you are a feminist” but then threads like this serve only to alienate women who have differing perspectives within feminism.

Almost no rights are inalienable, they almost all come with compromises so it is almost always a question of taking a view and looking at the nuances and coming down wherever you stand on the issue. Many feminists don’t support abortion to term, for example, even though in reality that is the logical opposition to the pro life movement.

It really is #nodebate to dictate that there is only one set of values or code that you deem you a feminist.

Missymoo100
Squeekums-
Calling a pregnant woman a host, makes it sound like you are calling the unborn a parasite, like the person carrying it is in no way part of the reason it's there in the first place
Broken down thats what a pregnant woman is, broken down essentially its a parasitic relationship between woman and fetus. Sorry you dont like the fact i take the cutesy bs out of it, the cutesy bs thats used in forced birth spiels to try guilt women to gestating pregnancys they dont want or cant handle
In many cases the woman tried to avoid pregnancy with contraception so she was trying to keep it out

"there are no terms and conditions"

Yes there are Missy you simply chose to ignore them. One of them is that it centres women and women's bodily autonomy.

Trying to deny a woman's option to terminate an unwanted pregnancy is to deny a woman bodily autonomy and is, therefore, not a feminist thing to do. It really is that simple.

* Lass - if a woman is choosing to abort that late, there is clearly a problem and the baby is unlikely to survive.*

But that’s not what we’re talking about. We’re now talking about termination for “social”* reasons where the foetus, if its heart is not stopped deliberately, would live after delivery.

• Fairly stupid trivialising term.

Lass, no as most late term abortions are done cos the fetus is defective
Most women dont get to 30 weeks and go eh im done abortion time. So we aint talking a healthy normal fetus here

The bold function seems to be fubar....

"Can you explain what the exact difference is between a baby born at 37 weeks and one being carried?" - I have already.

"Would you oppose delivery by c-section to conserve life of baby?"- yes, if the woman doesn't want this then it shouldn't be forced upon her.

As for your other questions about partial birth abortions... I'm not sure I should even respond to it. Do you think that this situation could ever actually occur? That a woman would decide to abort half way through a vaginal delivery? And if a woman did request it, that it could be decided in time that this was a valid request and someone found to carry it out?

Most women dont get to 30 weeks and go eh im done abortion time. So we aint talking a healthy normal fetus here

Yes, some of us are.

Squeakums-
Er no, a pregnancy is not a parasitic relationship. You can try to make out it is something that doesn't fit a biological definition to make yourself feel better about your stance, but it isn't true.
Parasites are different species to host in all circumstances, pregnancy is the result of reproduction.

And I'm feeling pretty safe in assuming that the number of women have 'social abortions' at 38 or 39 weeks would be minuscule.

And of course an unwanted pregnancy is a parasite. That's why women use contraception. That's why contraception is now (thankfully) an integral part of our society.

Because women spend a profound majority of their lives not wanting to become pregnant.

Wiseup, never once have i heard of a woman getting to that late and seeking abortion just cos, they seem to only exist in anti abortion debates
There are always more factors at play, especially since a dr wont do it on a whim

Most women dont get to 30 weeks and go eh im done abortion time. So we aint talking a healthy normal fetus here

Yes, some of us are.

• yes, and it depends what you define as healthy - the law allows disabled babies, i.e. With Down's syndrome to be aborted upto term regardless of whether they will live or not

Wiseup, never once have i heard of a woman getting to that late and seeking abortion just cos, they seem to only exist in anti abortion debates
There are always more factors at play, especially since a dr wont do it on a whim

Oh, totally. But there’s a thought experiment going on here, with some posters saying termination on demand up to term is the only feminist position, at the same time as the main “no true feminist” argument.

I believe that it is possible to be anti-abortion and feminist.

The language used in the debate is emotive, regardless of what side you're on because it is an emotive issue and their are too many variables to to make the very simplistic statement that Anti-abortion = Non Feminist.

Lass, no as most late term abortions are done cos the fetus is defective
Most women dont get to 30 weeks and go eh im done abortion time. So we aint talking a healthy normal fetus here

Right got you. I agree if we are talking about the current position in UK mainland law but some posters are talking about termination at any point regardless of whether there is a defect.

People seem to struggle to get their heads around the difference between wanted and unwanted babies.

Women happy to be pregnant versus terrified to be pregnant.

A baby doesn't just go from being wanted to suddenly being unwanted, and therefore aborted at the last minute.

Seriously, some people seem to think women are infantile idiots who don't know their own mind.

What if the question was framed as: can seeking to limit abortion ever be a feminist act?

Because the answer to that can't be anything other than NO.

How could it?

*actually I want to rephrase that a bit:

Can seeking to limit women's access to abortion ever be a feminist act?

What if the question was framed as: can seeking to limit abortion ever be a feminist act?

Yes I believe it should be reduced to reflect that babies are born and survive at 23 weeks.

I can still define myself as feminist, who is anyone to say otherwise.
No wonder feminism is losing popularity because its tenants dicate to other woman what views they are allowed to hold. You value human life?, well youre anti woman, pro - forced birth, and other manipulative terms.