Labour MP thinks men are women and says women can never say no to men.

[Mouthandtrousersall]

Response from Labour MP - man aged 67 who will never be impacted by this so proud to give away consent and rights of women, why would he care if it makes him seem cool with the queer folk.

So men can go on the All women shortlists because they are men. Women cannot say no to men in female spaces if men decide it's ok. If men decide you are safe you can just shut up about it as its not fair to men otherwise. Waffle waffle waffle about "gender assignment" and "gender identity". I think he has put them in inverted comma because he has no idea what they mean.

Give me a large gin.

My definition of woman is an adult human female.

See? That was easy. I gave a straightforward non circular definition of the word woman without having to include the word woman.

Now it's your turn @FEJ2016. If transwomen are women then what is your non-circular definition of the word woman?

Hold on folks. Let’s ask one question at a time. Otherwise they always find ways to weasel out of answering a direct question.

Go on, FEJ2016 what about the cotton ceiling?

You do seem to be contradicting yourself a lot @FEJ2016. First you say, Trans women are women but then later on you go on to say that It's a recognised medical condition and they're normal people who are unfortunately born feeling like they have been given the wrong body.

So which is it? Either transwomen are women or they're men who simply believe they should have been women. You can't have it both ways.

D'y know who else exists? Biological women, and they deserve to retain their hard won sex based rights. Why should we end sex based rights now, in this climate? With voyeurism up, sexual abuse against women and girls increasing? Why choose now to take away our rights?

This might make some men sad but hey ho.

It's us that don't fully understand folks!

@FEJ2016 has met the female essential oil fairy and sheshehezie told them we were all bigots. And our grandchildren are racists, and woman are a medical condition. Or something like that word salad anyway.

I see someone has drunk a tanker load of kool aid. Yeah, yeah we know trans woman are woman.

@FEJ2016 there are plenty of trans women on this site who join in our debates, agree with the main views and share their (often difficult) experiences. They whole heartedly acknowledge that women's biology continues to be in this day and age a tool for our oppression and therefore that in order to achieve equality and safety certain sex protected spaces are vital. Self id makes a mockery of all this for women and transwomen.

The love and appreciation goes both ways, based on respect and understanding.

The only anger here is directed against those who seek to dismantle hard won rights and silence women's voices.

Another reason to abandon Labour.

FEJ. Transwomen are (of course!) human beings, worthy of dignity and protection under the law. Like everyone else.

You are misreading frustration and legitimate concern for women and children's dignity and safety as hatred. It is not hatred. We don't want any old trans or non trans male to be able to access female spaces on demand. We don't want young people to be sterilised and medicalised for life.

Feeling like a woman (whatever that means) does not make a person female. Having female biology is the only thing that women throughout history and cultures have in common. Literally the only thing. It is not hateful to state that fact.

twitter.com/MunroeBergdorf/status/968232769884180480 LM the second.

There have been precisely zero incidents of trans people creating problems in changing rooms.

There are bucket loads of incidents.

@FEJ2016 got fuck all to come back with

@FEJ2016 many of us used to not care about this stuff, but you're misunderstanding what's being fought over.

Here's a current thread by a transwoman explaining how the current self ID laws are damaging to real transpeople as well as women, in case it helps you see past a vague feeling of it being transphobic to ask questions.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/3176969-Discussion-with-a-transsexual

Attacks in woman's bathrooms

They're not some weird subsection of criminals

Quite probably not. But they are subset of man.

they're normal people who are unfortunately born feeling like they have been given the wrong body
So are anorexics but we never encourage them to take diet pills.

Back to the OP my labour MP (female MP so not the same..though who can tell these days) sent me WORD FOR WORD the same email reply...
I can’t believe she didn’t even write it herself, I used to respect her.

She left.

The array of evidence, logic, wit, charm, compassion, logic, common sense, amorality and kindness is a beautiful thing to behold, dear proud terfs. I love you all.

Personally it ain't the trans people I'm worried about. It's the predatory creeps who will invade our spaces on the back of it. If someone has been through a careful process of assessment and has legally become a woman then I have no problem with it. I don't even care of they haven't had surgery. If they are genuinely wanting to live as a woman, that's fine.

But this self certifying, all about the feels nonsense is just that, nonsense. It's predatory men taking the piss, trying to obtain some sort of advantage.

And I am worried that there is some sort of stealthy erasure of homosexuality going on.

I’m a Tory, and we’re on our second female Prime Minister. How many have Labour had? Oh, yes...none.

Two women that couldn't be less feminist if they tried. Are you proud of their repeated choices to punish women through austerity, or how about asking rape and domestic violence victims to prove it in order to claim tax credits?

As for the OP, the letter does not say that women are men, or that women can never say no to men. Get a grip.

Bumble I respect my Labour female MP, part of me doesn't want to know what she thinks. I think she may be concerned about being deselected if she was GC.

not amorality obviously.

Yer someone said there has been a template circulated so its a generic letter.

At least I have focused him on it. I will meet him and talk to him about the swimming issue, we have a muslim population here, and we are also a cruise ship terminal. My hotel pool is used by cruise guests - this will not be good for business. I may join the self ID man thing and show up with my tits out on a Friday night. With the Southampton Echo on hand. They sag a bit but I don't care.

@bombadier
As for the OP, the letter does not say that women are men, or that women can never say no to men. Get a grip
The letter says transwomen are women. Er no, they are men so he is saying men are women. Maybe you want to believe transwomen are women but that does not make it true so perhaps you ought to get grip on reality.
He also says that he will engage with reasonable concerns but the answer should never be to automatically exclude trans people. So to summarise, the answer should never be no to men. So we can dress all this up in the gaslighting language you would appear to prefer but we all can read here.
Get a grip or get lost, preferably the latter.

I've found most feminists support actual trans women (post op) who have legitimately changed and live in peace... it's TRA's pushing to eliminate sex based protections which has ruined the peace, and the lack of forethought about the safety implications that self ID could cause by political party's.... who should know better...

@korez

Nail on the head.

They're not some weird subsection of criminals

Um... actually, many of them are. See the evidence in the prison population, where 50% of trans-identifying males are sex offenders.

It's really not the fault of feminists that transactivists decided to widen the trans definition to include a cross-dressing subset of men who are more likely to commit sexual offences than the average man. Transactivism's spectacular own goal. Nowt to do with feminists.

Now there's a backlash, lay the blame where it belongs and bugger off shouting at feminists about it. We tried to warn you.