I am about to ID as a man

[YesItsADebate]

In 1.5 hours, I will be identifying as a gay man who does not conform with male gender stereotypes. I expect my local leisure facility to comply with the Swim England guidelines and agree that I am entitled to access the men-only swimming sessions, the male showers and toilets and to wear swimming trunks. I also expect them to re-educate any other man who objects to any of the above.

In other words, I have a meeting with the local swimming pool at 10 to see whether or not I’ll be resorting to topless swimming and public nudity tonight in an effort to prove my point that the Swim England guidelines are ridiculous

Wish me luck!

Wow - well done OP for taking action, very inspiring!

Good luck!

I'm sure we all wish we had the balls to do something like this.

You don’t need “balls” Stinkpickle, how transphobic of you. A man vag will do fine

I don’t think men will like it. Most men I know have a very binary view if gender and gender roles. I think it is more deeply ingrained with men.
They will be embarrassed by a woman in their space but will cover it with lewd jokes and bravado.

In many way I think men are much more conservative than women and like to protect the status quo. Most men I know still have quite a strong sense of decency when it comes to nudity and sex.

What actually is the result you are hoping for? Are you going for media coverage?

Won't you feel a bit silly if they say "sure!" and then you have to splash about with your knockers out.

Yep, I agree with your OP.

I’m wondering though if your nice misoginist view of the world won’t mean that trans men will just be brushed aside (because actually actually you know they are women) rather than listen to like trans women are (because they actually men and still get more airing/respect than we do as women).

I have to say, taking these transwomen and men to their own game sounds genius.

Last-minute best wishes to OP.

I'd love to swim topless. You can do just that in France or Brazil. It's wonderful.

But not this same shit again about gender. What if a woman comes along for whom this argument is necessary and not a bit of whimsy and you've already wound them up about it? They might not necessarily take someone in genuine psychological need seriously with you stirring it up.

Unless of course, you are serious. In which case, I wish you the big hoo rah and all the best. It sounds topping.

I think that showering naked, or at least topless, in front of small boys is the way to go.
If any group wants to do this in Edinburgh or Glasgow, I will join you.

Well done OP. I'm totally in awe. Like PP I can't wait to hear the response. I wish I was 20 years younger and twice as brave then I would do it at my local pool. As it is, the men would probably just look at me with pity.

It is unrealistic to expect these young men to not view women's breasts as anything other than in a titillating way. That's just how they are wired

True, although to be honest, it's only going to do them good to see normal women's boobs in real life in their wondrous variety rather than the (often) artificial porn boobs they'll likely have been exposed to.

As to women's chests without the boobs - I've seen facebook remove pictures of women't mastectomy scars, but frankly, if you're comfortable with it, what possible reason could they have to stop you?

Tuftedlady Absolutely. Op I applaud you.

Sorry it is OUR misogynist view of the world, not yours.....

OP love it! Good luck!

@daisydrip As it is, the men would probably just look at me with pity.

Be consoled, they'd probably vomit if they saw me.

It would actually be helpful if a group of TRA's (male to female ones) were persuaded that they really should be Using their right to go naked in a women's changing room, and have a bunch of them dangling their dongles on masse. Because that would also show up SE's ridiculous policy, and make the TRAs look daft at the same time.

There are so many 'men only' clubs and sporting facilities. This is one way of getting into those establishments as well. Worth a thought! Something like Brook's? Or White's? That should get them squirming.

Fan-bloody-tastic! Hope it goes well.

OP, you're a legend. Can't wait to see the outcome.

But not this same shit again about gender. What if a woman comes along for whom this argument is necessary and not a bit of whimsy and you've already wound them up about it? They might not necessarily take someone in genuine psychological need seriously with you stirring it up.

They shouldn't be letting anyone do this. "Psychological need" or not. They have a responsibility to their other customers of both sexes. This is intended to show up this absurd and sexist Swim England policy for what it is.

Elocutionist don't you find it odd that a man can waltz into a women's only session, changing rooms etc, looking like an actual man, with no top covering his female breasts and his "female" giblets on full display.....as per the guidance.....yet op, who is possibly gender fluid and today identifies as a man wanting the same treatment has to have telephone calls and meetings to discuss?

How is that right?

Good luck.

I'm particularly interested in their explanation that FTM people have to cover their breasts whilst MTF people are not expected to cover their penises and women have to be 'educated' to accept male bodies in intimate spaces.

I don't agree that men will automatically be comfortable with female bodies in the mens changing room - there might be some bluster but I suspect most would be quite uncomfortable.

I'm bisexual. I love looking at women's breasts. I'm allowed in the changing rooms.

bluebells1 - the thing with gentleman’s clubs is that they enforce rigorous gatekeeping, which usually involves having to be proposed by two members. They’ll continue to ensure that women are kept out.