I am about to ID as a man

[YesItsADebate]

In 1.5 hours, I will be identifying as a gay man who does not conform with male gender stereotypes. I expect my local leisure facility to comply with the Swim England guidelines and agree that I am entitled to access the men-only swimming sessions, the male showers and toilets and to wear swimming trunks. I also expect them to re-educate any other man who objects to any of the above.

In other words, I have a meeting with the local swimming pool at 10 to see whether or not I’ll be resorting to topless swimming and public nudity tonight in an effort to prove my point that the Swim England guidelines are ridiculous

Wish me luck!

Yes, that’s it exactly. Women generally don’t need that encouragement, but the men they are targeting do.

Look, I know the above was about childcare and bacon butties. But try applying that logic to, ooh, I don't know, encouraging women into STEM or all-women shortlists in politics: the males are not the ones targeted, as there are already plenty who apply.

I'm just running out the door, but Thank you for doing this OP.

Childrens Centres have a specific list of groups they target as either vulnerable or needing engagement. Men are on it because they want to help men interact more with their children.
There is no funding for groups that are not on the list, hence the general toddler groups having biscuits and paying for their refreshments.

See, I don't have an issue with this; if it takes bacon butties to break down the social conditioning and stereotyping that has led to (some) men taking a secondary role in their DCs lives, then so be it.

I see this as no different from AWS or women-only gym sessions. Of course, as some trans-women are insisting that these are open to them, then the bacon-butty toddler sessions should equally be open to Trans-men who so wish.

@toomanytolist The existing GRC system would cover and protect your child.

I only wear a bra for work. I find them uncomfortable and I feel corseted whilst wearing them, and yes, I've spent over £200 in the last two years getting a bra to fit, but they are still not right; heaven only knows how much I've spent in a lifetime.

That doesn't mean that I will get rid of my breasts. I've recently spent time consoling a woman who has had a double mastectomy and it's harrowing.

Elendon I'll be waiting 2 weeks for their answer. In the meantime, if anyone's DH is a member of an all-men club, do ask them if they'd be willing to nominate me, or you, or another willing volunteer on here for membership. I promise I will behave in a gentlemanly fashion!

When the weather's warmer, I'd be very happy to organise a MN swim-in at the men's pond in Hampstead (where I understand the rules permit TIMs to use the women's pond?) and a topless seaside walk. I've looked at the law in my amateur way and exposure of breasts doesn't count as what used to be the crime of indecent exposure (now just 'exposure'), but may constitute a public nuisance if the intent is to shock people. Just putting that out there so that fellow MNer are aware that there is a risk of being arrested if they go topless in public.

You are legendary OP
Kudos sir. doffed caps all round.
If a day is agreed by enough people to self I'd as the opposite sex then I too will join in.
I want to man spread on the train to show the twat that does it to me how fun that is for me.
I want to be very entitled in all that I do that day.
And to walk into a man's changing room and show those men what it means to share spaces

I have serious concerns about self ID, but I do worry that this could actually make things worse.

OP, I’m sure you came across as a nice person. So when they’re discussing how to deal with your request, they’ll be saying “look at that male-gendered person who came in to talk to us, he was so reasonable and just wanted to behave in the way his gender dictates” and it could mean they’re actually MORE likely to condone the use of opposite sexes in the changing rooms??

When the weather's warmer, I'd be very happy to organise a MN...........topless seaside walk

Coincidently, the UKPride 2018 event is taking place on a beach this year. Would that be too inflammatory as a protest ?
https://www.iwpride.org/

I'm coming for the swim in in Hampstead.

Although I reserve my right as a man to wear a women's swimsuit. Because it's my brain that's male, not my tits, don't you fucking oppress me etc etc

I'm up for the swim in Hampstead!

I used to swim in Galway in the 80s - sea swimming all year round. Being topless wasn't a problem then.

When the weather's warmer, I'd be very happy to organise a MN swim-in at the men's pond in Hampstead

I'm already trying to find the perfect pair of budgie smugglers.

(where I understand the rules permit TIMs to use the women's pond?)

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/transgender-women-hampstead-heath-ladies-pond-kenwood-kate-moss-a8136581.html

OP you are amazing, well done. I am tempted to get my 6ft 2 burly DH to go along to our local pool and request access to the ladies only legs bums and tum aqua session, changing rooms etc, because he self ID's as a female and SE are supportive of his inclusion. I'd be very interested to see their stance then.

YesItsADebate Thank you so much for doing this. It's madness that you have to but I fear it is very necessary.

Toomanytolist I care very much about the issues your child and many other children face. If you read some of the comments by trans MNetters, transwomen and at least one transman I've seen post, they often talk about the very real difficulties and dangers they are facing through self ID. Self ID has to be stopped before we're picking up the pieces of the damage it will inevitably do, and I don't want your child or anyone else's child to be caught in that crossfire.

if it takes bacon butties to break down the social conditioning and stereotyping that has led to (some) men taking a secondary role in their DCs lives, then so be it.

I was involved for a while with a group looking into the research for fathers involvement in the early years. There was a lot of data from fathers about 'I don't read the noticeboards because there's nothing of interest to me on them' (ie they're all about children and development) Tbh, while it could never be bluntly said, the main bottom line was that the majority of men just didn't find it interesting, so unless there was something motivating in it for them (like bacon butties or specially designed sessions) they had better uses for their time. Which is difficult when you have to tick the box demonstrating you've raised father involvement/presence of men to justify your funding.

I'm coming for the swim in in Hampstead. Although I reserve my right as a man to wear a women's swimsuit. Because it's my brain that's male, not my tits, don't you fucking oppress me etc etc

I'd like to join in, but I'm unused to unheated swimming, so would be worried that my very unmanly squeal as the cold water reached my waist would "out" me as a woman

I really fancy swimming as a man.
I wouldn't feel socially conditioned to remove any visible pubic or body hair

I have a wonderful vision of a whole load of MNetters descending on Hampstead wearing Borat style mankinis,

BlooperReal please do try to get your DH to enquire!

I might self-id as a man every Friday. Man Friday.

I think it'll be the period blood in men's sinks that'll win this.

Swimming topless is the most lovely feeling. I'm up for it.

@BreakfastAtSqiffanys surely you'll let that squeal out as the water reaches your non-existant lady balls

My DP can be a test sometimes but he'll help to show up self-id, too.

I might self-id as a man every Friday. Man Friday.

This wins for me. I'm already doing meat-free Monday but I most definitely have space in my life for Man Friday

so unless there was something motivating in it for them (like bacon butties or specially designed sessions) they had better uses for their time

This just gave me a flashback rage to when my ex told me that he didn't like looking after our then-small DS as it was "boring". OF COURSE IT'S FUCKING BORING. IT'S EYEWATERINGLY, SOUL-CRUSHINGLY BORING. But if you have a kid you have to fucking do it anyway. It isn't fucking optional. I hate that we have to pander to men who think it's beneath them because it's not interesting to them.

Bravo, OP, you have shown real courage. Keep it up! We are all behind you.

I live in Northern Ireland but I'd travel to London for an organised Hampstead Heath swim-in protest.

The ponds being open to trans-women has already got publicity in the Daily Mail. It would be a great propaganda stunt to do a mass swim-in of self-IDing men in the men-only pond.