I am about to ID as a man

[YesItsADebate]

In 1.5 hours, I will be identifying as a gay man who does not conform with male gender stereotypes. I expect my local leisure facility to comply with the Swim England guidelines and agree that I am entitled to access the men-only swimming sessions, the male showers and toilets and to wear swimming trunks. I also expect them to re-educate any other man who objects to any of the above.

In other words, I have a meeting with the local swimming pool at 10 to see whether or not I’ll be resorting to topless swimming and public nudity tonight in an effort to prove my point that the Swim England guidelines are ridiculous

Wish me luck!

You are my new hero OP I'd have paid good money to be a fly on the wall in that meeting (and their slow dawning of understanding afterwards)

I've often considered going full on 'TRA' style in some public spaces, with the aim of peak-transing more people. Demanding to have smear tests, freaking out at the 'feminine products' aisles in shops, asking for a pregnancy scan etc...

I just haven't been able to actually do it. The levels of arrogance and entitlement required are staggering. Also I'd like to separate people like me from the transtrenders in the eyes of the public.

'Manstrual cycle' has made me actually cry with mirth

I'm up for slow swim chatting in the men's pond!
Also for rinsing my mooncup in the sinks in the gents.

Well done OP. I have so much admiration for you.

eyeswideshit welcome to peak trans. Be careful of altitude sickness, because as you reach the top and learn more about self I’d, AGP and bullying TRAs, on the way to the peak, the more nausea you will experience.

Go for it!

Brilliant !

If you do end up in the men's changing rooms you should take a packer with you and conspicuously lay it on the bench next to you while changing, putting shoes on, etc. If anyone looks shout incoherently about how it's a real penis and better than a cis penis because you worked harder for it.

Man here. Heads up!

I use a mooncup but I’ll happily swing a manpon in an ostentatious fashion for the purposes of the exercise.

A slightly different perspective.

My 15 year old started formally identifying as male from age 12 with a name change, notifications to school etc. This had been coming for many years and he is now much happier. We are under the care of the Gender Identity Clinic in London. I have no doubt at all that he will opt for surgery once he is 18.

There have been many issues over the years with swimming and swimming attire being a huge one. He is far from alone with that, it’s a massive issue with trans people and Swim England are well aware of that. From age 9 when puberty set in and he was no longer able just to wear board shorts, his previous love of swimming ground quickly to a halt and he has rarely been since. I don’t even know that he would be able to swim a length of a pool now. His preferred attire of binder, rash vest and baggy shorts was not accepted at many pools and he felt drew attention to him even where it was accepted. The very very last thing he would ever want to do is expose his breasts or pretend to use a urinal. Though he very much wishes he could.

The environment of a swimming pool is one of the most challenging ones a trans person can be in and I applaud Swim England for making efforts to be inclusive in this area. As a mother I am all too well aware that there are no perfect answers to many of the issues that trans people, particularly teenagers, face. I don’t think they should be ridiculed for trying though. I appreciate the intention here is to explore flaws and risks in self identification but self identify is exactly what my son has done – with lots of support but also in the face of censure and ridicule. I never fail to be humbled by his bravery and his unwavering commitment to being who he feels he is. And believe me, I am about as far from being a trendy mum as you can get.

I really hope if he ever ventures back to a swimming pool that he never encounters some of the commenters on here. And for those who say this is a thread about self ID and not about trans, well, when I think about my son at age 15 it’s quite difficult to see the difference.

Kudos OP

OP you are awesome!

Can’t wait to hear the outcome. I agree we need to start making a bit more noise and doing some more self identifying.

ok I'll admit it, I'm very impressed.

OP met with my MP and got his support

Sorry if you mentioned this and I missed it, but what happened with this? Is your MP on board, knowing you are doing this to test the boundaries of self-ID, or does he think you're genuinely a trans man?

but I also see toomanytolist's point.

to be honest, I'm impressed with you both and don't know what the answer is.

Just place marking to explain this to my DH this evening. He is more concerned about gay men in the men's changing rooms than anything else. He thinks they should be in the ladies changing rooms, and lesbians in with the men.

Yes, I married a knuckledragger. But he's being educated, one step at a time. 😏

This is an act of genius: well done, OP. If the bat-shittery of Self-IDing gets through, I would be delighted to "become a man" as part of a mass protest - while changing absolutely nothing about my life, of course.

genuinely a trans man

But OP is genuinely a TIF. They self identify as a TIF in a particular set of circumstances, and that is all that is required.

And what about our 15yr old daughters toomanytolist? Are their rights to Male free spaces not important? Are our 15yr old sons’ feelings about sharing with a female, no matter how she presents, not as important as your child’s feelings?

I think we should do this much more.

OP, I just wanted to say again how much I admire you.

I've been saying this for months. That what we need to do is, en-masse, identify as men. It would be awesome.
I've told my DH this - maybe I need to commit to it?

I really hope if he ever ventures back to a swimming pool that he never encounters some of the commenters on here and I hope my son with ADD/Aspergers and social difficulties never runs into a confused female in the men’s changing rooms.

Are our 15yr old sons’ feelings about sharing with a female, no matter how she presents, not as important as your child’s feelings?

Because we are women, our wishes and feelings are not important. Our role is to make way for other people, no matter how we feel about it or what difficulties it causes us.

rolls eyes

Well done