I am about to ID as a man

[YesItsADebate]

In 1.5 hours, I will be identifying as a gay man who does not conform with male gender stereotypes. I expect my local leisure facility to comply with the Swim England guidelines and agree that I am entitled to access the men-only swimming sessions, the male showers and toilets and to wear swimming trunks. I also expect them to re-educate any other man who objects to any of the above.

In other words, I have a meeting with the local swimming pool at 10 to see whether or not I’ll be resorting to topless swimming and public nudity tonight in an effort to prove my point that the Swim England guidelines are ridiculous

Wish me luck!

Following with interest

Good on you, OP.

We should all self ID as men in as many situations as possible.

Are we back on mners having sex in the dark with their cardies on again?!

It's totes practical in February to be fair.

Very much interested in hearing their response.

If the person with an erection is my significant other then sure, no problem, otherwise no, he can bugger off and take Mr Happy with him.

@APerfectSky well that's great for you. But at my gym it's open, communal changing. Surely you can understand that your set up isn't the only one?

@APerfectSky i also agree that with plenty of secure cubicles, shared facilities can work. Just like mixed swimming sessions which are on most of the time. However, many pools and gyms have very open plan changing rooms with only a couple of cubicles.

I am not very comfortable undressing after swimming even in a women's changing room, and prefer to use a cubicle where available. However, if theyre occupied, i can get on with it easily enough. In a mixed changing room at a busy time i would feel uncomfortable changing near a man, as he may well feel uncomfortable changing near me.

It's totes practical in February to be fair.

This is what electric blankets are for, no? I sleep with my head under the covers too when it's really cold so I don't end up with hair icicles.

Could people stop feeding the TRA

Looking forward to an update.

Same with our local pool, APerfectSky. It does seem to work.

But where separate changing rooms exist, I'm fully with the OP. Looking forward to hearing about it.

Tbh even contained cubicles make me a tad uncomfortable, knowing that there have been a few prosecutions near me for putting cameras in them.
All prosecuted people being male and wanting to film females, coincidentally concurring with rates of sexual offending..

@APerfectSky

The swimming baths I go to are separate changing rooms, as such there are zero cubicles for changing. There is a shower area with curtains and cubicles for toilets, but that is it. So my option would be to change in the toilets or change in the shower area. Is this equal or fair?

I can imagine for all swimming baths to be brought up to the standard of the poolside changing villages, the cost would be prohibitive, disruptive and in some venues impossible due to space constraints.

Now, if swim England were to pay to bring all changing facilities into line, that would be fantastic, but is that likely to happen? Nope, instead women are being bullied into having to relinquish their safety in order to not appear transphobic.

One of the perks of being female is that you can behave inappropriately and no thinks you're anything but charming.

I don't think you're charming, you sound like an absolute skeeve. The changing room is not a 'fun' place to enjoy a crafty perve and if you're treating it like that you are behaving in a very disrespectful way. It's an entirely practical space used to change clothes so you can do the activity you came to do - that's the fun bit, the swimming or whatever.

I've never noticed a woman behaving inappropriately in the changing rooms. Not once.

I think the swim England guidelines had some great suggestions to support transsexuals and those with gender euphoria. Eg trans-only swimming sessions so people can feel more comfortable.

The bit about any man who fancies it getting to use the ladies changing rooms, it being transphobic to be afraid of or dislike him if he did this (although if I'm correct would you then have to call him she or it would be a hate crime?), and that if you didn't like it you would need reeducated, not so much.

Kind of snuck in there among the guidelines, but there nevertheless if you read them properly.

Looking forward to your update.

Terfs up!

Walking the walk, OP!

Well done!

I've never noticed a woman behaving inappropriately in the changing rooms. Not once.

No, nor me. And I'm there almost every day.

I'm bisexual too...and I would still be very uncomfortable if a woman starting acting inappropriate to me. Especially whilst I was feeling very vulnerable getting changed.

It would be something I would complain about

Another place marker- bravo OP 👏🏻

Placemarking for the update...

This sort of piss taking is the only way that self ID can be properly exposed as the batshit crazy idea that it is.

I've never noticed a woman behaving inappropriately in the changing rooms. Not once.

No, her experiences are very different from mine too.

I can see where the negative perception some people have of bisexuality comes from. Some people really give other bisexuals a bad name

Indeed, especially when that female bisexual seems to be arguing that just because they like to ogle unsuspecting women then it makes no sense not to let the men in the changing rooms so that they can do it too.

The only reason that particular poster gets away with it is because they don't have an erection popping up to give the game away.

Depressing.

Ok, I've emailed them my notes from the meeting. This is what I wrote:

Dear x and y,

Thankyou for meeting with me this morning. Sorry for missing the email about times! I appreciate you taking the time to discuss my personal circumstances and how they relate to [leisure chain]'s policies.

These are my notes from our conversation:

• I identify as a man. Given the wide gap between the law on gender recognition and Swim England's 'guide to engaging trans people in swimming', I would like to know [leisure chain]'s policy on self-identified men:

 - Accessing the single-sex swimming sessions held at [brand] swimming pool;
 - Using sex-segregated changing rooms (e.g. the sports hall open changing rooms at [brand]), toilets and showers;
 - Wearing the swimming/sports attire of their identified gender, e.g. trunks for swimming. 

• I would also like to know, if [leisure chain] does put into place policies based on the Swim England guidance, how other service users who challenge my presence in men's spaces will be educated by staff to understand that a man may look like a female but is still a man and entitled by your policies to be treated as such.

• Currently, [leisure chain] does not have relevant policies in place. As x is away for the next two weeks, y will escalate these questions to the general manager at [brand]. I can expect a policy response within 2 weeks.

As I hopefully made clear, my intention is not to upset or embarrass staff or other service users or to put front-line staff in the untenable position of having to decide whether I am 'manly' enough to access men's spaces. I understand that [leisure chain] may choose to apply the exemption to discrimination on the basis of sex or gender reassignment in the Equality Act 2010, which allows organisations offering single-sex services in sensitive situations to exclude people of the opposite sex if it is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim. Swim England's guidance dispenses with this exemption and forms the basis of my questions above.

Thanks again and I hope to hear from you soon.

Best regards,
YesItsADebate

One of the perks of being female is that you can behave inappropriately and no thinks you're anything but charming.

This statement reads as 100% what an MRA attempting to impersonate a woman would says, fwiw. I mean, could just be someone trying much too hard to come across as a ladette, but...