Please help advise and shape a Campaign for the Right to Choose Sex Segregation... Basil?

[GuardianLions]

After discussing on other threads the problems of
-using the language,
-reacting to the advances and
-responding to the priorities and concerns of those who seek to abolish women's rights - in other words, allowing MRAs and TRAs set the terms of the debate, there is a risk we are not taking the opportunity to set out our own demands.

So I thought we could set one out.

I brought together some thought and discussion on MN to create a document, setting out a simple demand for the 'Right to Choose Sex Segregation' - a right that is clearly being taking away from us by letting people opt into the services and facilities designated for the opposite sex. Many thanks to everyone who has responded with suggestions/corrections so far.

This doesn't cover the worrying transing of kids deliberately, in order to keep a clear focus of its aims.

It also avoids contentious terms such as 'gender' or 'transgender' and avoids heady intellectual language to keep it as inclusive as possible.

My current thoughts are to

• Create an attractive, printable PDF to raise awareness to distribute during actions.
• Use it as a basis for a widely circulated petition
• Target businesses for twitter/letter writing campaigns, boycotts

However, I don't want to go down the road of Caroline Craido-Perez or Laura Bates and be the face of anything. Is Basil still here? How did it work staying anonymous with 'We Believe You'?

I'd love to have any thoughts, feedback, next steps or suggestions to make this an empowering resource for people who want the option for sex-segregation/ same-sex spaces.

Big thanks in advance.

I think that the document is great. I am not sure how to deal with the anonymity issue though. Sorry to be useless! Could we link it to another already established group?

thanks! Yes I was thinking that. Perhaps they would be happy to be associated? Is it cocky to ask?

How is it cocky?

Put down the socialisation and stand clear of the patriarchal expectations of womanhood.

Ha ha - ironic - the use of the word 'cock'

Have you seen the Women’s Place UK list of 5 demands? Might be worth you talking to them.

womansplaceuk.org/our-demands-2/

Heather Brunskell-Evans is probably free now

Thanks both

I think you could make the language more objective. In the bit about dysphoria and transgressing boundaries for instance. Not that I disagree. I just think we'll get further with really objective arguments about why we have sex segregation.

Thanks certain

This is really excellent. Well done.

I agree with certain though. I don’t think it even needs the section about why people might want to access facilities for the opposite sex. It doesn’t matter and is speculative.

Also you could add in the fact that school pupils also have to share changing facilities and overnight accommodation with the opposite sex, it’s not just toilets.

Thanks lemon

agree with certain though. I don’t think it even needs the section about why people might want to access facilities for the opposite sex. It doesn’t matter and is speculative.

I'm not sure about this. I think that people think "what's the harm" otherwise.

Remember that they are being presented a disingenuous view of who wants to access female spaces.

I think perhaps it could be reworded slightly.

Yes I think it needs to be kept in - but perhaps shaved down - since it all would seem a bit odd to someone unfamiliar with what is happening.

There's that disbelief of - "no one even wants to go in women's toilets^ etc

Yes I see what you mean. I would keep it brief and very matter of fact then.

How about this ?

I have updated it and I think it is clearer

Yes that looks good but I would title number 2 “gender dysphoria/ transgender” and move it to number 1.
I think that will help the tone be one of sympathy and understanding but without capitulation.

I think that would be capitulation. The number of people with dysphoria is tiny compared to the number of people with sexual fetishes, and saying 'transgender' or 'gender dysphoria' validates both the gender/sex conflation and the concept of 'transgender'.

I get what you are saying though.

How about from lemon's suggestion that it's "no 1, gender dysphoria there is a rare psychological disorder... etc"

Transgender is a catch all term which includes cross dressing. We want a clearly understandable stance.

I don't think it will help to go down that rabbit hole. Maybe 'sex dysphoria'?

I agree that would work. I was saying that we shouldn't go down the rabbit hole. But "gender dysphoria" is the accepted DSM 5 condition.

I was agreeing that as a more sympathetic position we could change "No 1. psychological disorder" to "gender dysphoria" but describe it as the mental health condition it is.

Calling it sex dysphoria instead is fine by me but it might be confusing.

However I also feel that switching it to point 1 is letting MRAs and TRAs decide our priorities.
My most pressing concern is the perves and sex offenders.

That's a fair point. Maybe still change point 2 to gender dysphoria?