Never thought I'd start a trans thread...

[picklemepopcorn]

I came across this and found it very interesting- but not as interesting as the comments below it.

mirandayardley.com/en/what-autogynephilia-is-and-what-is-it-not-a-brief-note/

Sophocles - does that happen to men when they become fathers? Surely this is grounds for a lawsuit. If they literally said "your priorities have changed because you have a child now" but they don't do the same to fathers, isn't that clear discrimination?

This is a totally different group of people to the old school trans women. These are straight male pervs, nothing complicated about it. And the forcing women to participate is part of the fetish, not nearly as much fun for them if we were happy about it.

I'm paraphrasing, MrG. They made reference to the hours that the job "requires", how they want to "support her work-life balance" etc etc.

So in theory, yes, she could think about taking them to a tribunal, but being seen as an uppity troublemaker doesn't get you many jobs either, so...

He's forcing 48,000 employees at CS to be complicit with his fetish.

They are not being asked for consent.

If they disagree they don't have a job at CS.

As Phil told Paris, "they will never amount to anything." And the "diversity" policy he has written will make sure of that at CS.

SophoclesTheFox
Is completely right.

Women make the mistake of being upfront about hours when they have kids. Men don't do this, they just take the time they want without mentioning it.

That's true mouth Women ask for permission. We need to stop that and be a lot more selfish.

You know what? I don't have a problem with AGPS in principle . I have known plenty of gay boys who like dressing up in sequins, and also straight boys who like wearing silk knickers. Sexuality can be strange and unseemly, and if you're not hurting anyone, then who am I to say you can't wank while wearing fishnets?
The problem is when AGPS say they ARE women.

And the thing is, men don't actually buy it! The men at Credit Suisse don't ACTUALLY believe Phil Bellend to be a woman. Allowing him to piss all over what being a woman in finance is actually like is a hostile act.
It's a great big "fuck you" to women.

I talked to DP about this whole thing, and explained the difference between gender dysphoric transsexuals and AGP men who are trying to get self id. He's really not a feminist, and normally zones out when I rant on, but he just rolled his eyes and said "look, if you are trying to get into changing rooms where teenage girls are, or work in a women's refuge, and you have a dick swinging between your legs you're up to no good." ( I paraphrase, it was more offensive than that).

People get it when you can get them to listen. The problem is the establishment (BBC, politicians etc) probably have more than their fair share of AGP men bloody running things!
I'm reminded of that film Personal Services, where all the high Court judges are paying to dress as schoolgirls and pretending to be lesbians. These are the men in charge God help us.

IfNot - I know men don't believe in sex changes any more than women do (on the whole), but they have a culture of tolerating each others sex habits, so titty bars and porn at work is ok, sex with junior staff, prostitutes on business trips, ranking women at work on sex characteristics, are all fine, each to his own etc., and this is supported through a legal framework of libel, non disclosures, tribunals etc. And the legal framework is being erected even higher around these fetishes. This is why Oxfam can't sack a man prostituting women in a disaster, why Saville was allowed to do what he did, why this all goes on and on. Maybe now its hurting football we will see a change, but unless we all stop allowing sex drives to harm people by pretending it's diversity, we won't .

Yeah, God forbid it hurts Football! 😁I have to laugh or I'd cry!

Just wait til the Adult Babies start coming out of the woodwork

I know, right, tallullah? Would it be OK to bring your adult baby to work on Bring Your Kids To Work Day? If not, why not? It could be easily changed to Bring Your Kink To Work Day. And why not, eh. Only pearl-clutchers kink-shame, amirite?

Or diapered CEOs chairing meetings from a playpen 2 days a week.

Absolutely Sophocles. Kinkphobia is literal violence.

The Board Room can be refitted as the dungeon, and have everyone shackled to the wall until they agree men are women.

Meet your new boss, Miss Whiplash (and don't you dare misgender her you evil bigot)

This morning I had the realisation about what is happening.

There are two groups.
Young trans people and TRA. They are young an optimistic. They have grown up in a world where being gay is the norm, where there is much more acceptance of ‘alternative’ life styles. They truly see the good in everyone. They want everyone to be accepted. They want to see the end of prejudice.

The other group is Older trans people and women like us.
We have been around the block a few times. We have met the men that we know will take advantage of this. We have been on the receiving end of men who are so depraved that they honestly will put on a dress and a wig just to gain access to a female safe space. The younger people just don’t believe that these men exist.
Also, we have been on the receiving end of blatant sexism. Don’t forget that it was only a few years ago that people needed training in the workplace about how not to sexually assault female work colleague. These men haven’t gone away.

Young trans people and their allies are going to have a very rude awakening when these men that they refuse to believe exist crawl out of the woodwork.

I agree Simon

And I think there's another factor. Young women look at older ones and see clearly that patriarchy, on balance, has given us a spanking. Rather than believe that we are their future, they'd rather believe that we did it wrong and that their way (messing with gender and identifying out of the problems associated with femaleness) will save them from our fate.

We think they've been sold a pup. They think if they listen to us they'll end up like us.

It's no different to how I saw my mother and other older women when I was a young woman.

Now I am a middle aged woman I realise that life has dealt me exactly the same deal despite how 'woke' and 'different' I thought I was back in the 90s.

Now I am a middle aged woman I realise that life has dealt me exactly the same deal despite how 'woke' and 'different' I thought I was back in the 90s.

I was the same ... then I had a somewhat early rude awakening when I went to university where I got to hear stuff like 'it's really not that hard, young man - even the girl finished it and she's actually got the answer right!'

On the upside: most women I know didn't last more than a year in their post-graduation jobs before realising that, yes, the world is kind of a misogynistic place still!

But lots of younger women are gender critical though. I don't think you can assume that all feminists are over 40!
Having said that it is very true that, for women, having children pulls sexism sharply into focus, whatever age that happens.
And yes, perhaps older women are more experienced with the full spectrum of male entitlement. I certainly feel jaded!

I was gender critical to a degree when I was young. Whilst at uni I read a fair bit of 2nd Wave feminism and found myself in agreement...but I still felt that being from a different era with my life ahead of me things would somehow be different. I would recognise the misogyny, I would avoid the pitfalls and the traps.

Nope!

I think that those of us who are older have met more people, especially the perverse kind of men who will see an opportunity to claim to be female just to gain access to female only safe spaces.
Younger TRAs just seem to think they don’t exist because they’ve not had the world experience yet.
Just like people were shocked at the whole thing with the Presidents Club. I can’t believe that so many people thought this kind of behaviour had all gone away.

I think a lot of us thought that because it was no longer acceptable, it had gone away. So when I was young, we were just getting people to realise that you couldn't pinch a woman's bum if you fancied it.

As I got older, no one was harassing me in the workplace any more, sexual harassment was illegal, i worked in an inclusive workplace. I thought it was done.

As I got older again, I realised that it is still happening. It has gone underground a bit, and if there are enough witnesses against you you will get into trouble.
Mainly though young women have been pressured into cooperating with abusive behaviour, in the name of being 'up for a laugh', 'sexually adventurous', cool.

As an aside, I love Miranda yardley

She is going for it on twitter - all that stuff we say about why aren't the transsexuals speaking up - she bloody is - frankly, I hope she's keeping an eye on herself because she's going to burn herself out.

And I just realised that I said she and her an awful lot just then - and it's because Miranda doesn't require it, doesn't force me, so somehow it seems fine to use female pronouns.

When I was young, I heard of people like Germaine Greer, and I thought they were over the top, I thought it wasn't that bad, like so many of us, I thought we were equal. Then I worked for 10 years, then I had kids, and finally, then, I realised that I was careful not to mention my relationship, my kids, when I interviewed for jobs, I prepared answers in case people asked, I made sure I had a casual joke prepared, and DP just didn't. It didn't even occur to him to think like that. That I was subtly held back because my male CEO didn't want to be alone with me on a sales trip.
That I was where the buck stopped with the kids, that even my parents made assumptions (I have had so many sharp remarks for my father around me going out to work and having a nanny/childminder - WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT HE DID, although my mum was the person looking after us, from 6am to 8-10pm while he was out of the house).

I understand. I really do. I was there, I thought we'd made it.. then I realised that we really hadn't.

OK great so of course the gender critical colleagues at Pips’ company will all get exactly the same opportunities to network with, sorry ‘reverse mentor’, the company board, in order to further equality and break down gender barriers and all that good stuff, won’t they?

Just wait til the Adult Babies start coming out of the woodwork

Like this one in Canada www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4400306