Spectator article: Don't fall for it people

[JenniferJames]

Comrades,

The framing of the self-id debate as 'Corbynistas vs. Mumsnet' is a deliberate tactic by the right wing propaganda machine and done to undermine Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour party and paint it as hopelessly divided. We're not.

It is important to remember that only a Corbyn gov't will lift women out of poverty, build homes, invest in the economy, make tuition fees free and stop invading the Middle East. Jeremy, though he doesn't hold our position, is the only Labour MP who has not only come out and said that women are entitled to a debate and to campaign against self-id, but that we have a right to raise money to see if the Equalities Act 2010 exemptions are being misused by AWS.

Hope everyone is well. Mumsnet you are indeed mighty.

long term labour member (30 years plus)
activist. friends with front benchers.
stop making excuses for him. Jeremy is a disaster.

It's quite consistent with JJ's views on Twitter. She has always been concerned that her crowdfunder would be used by the right-wing to bash Corbyn (even though support for self-id is shared across the Labour party and most of the other parties).
In a lot of ways, this thread exemplifies her fears. Look at the posters criticising Corbyn and Momentum as though any othet faction in Labour is different on self-id.

thanks for mansplaining my allegiances.

i support (and donated to) the crowdfunder.

JJ is blinkered. JC has said on national telly that trans women are women. Momentum are a disaster.

Because of this- i can't vote labour. I am disenfranchised. Thanks Bromentum and JC for doing that to me.

Was that to me? Your post wasn't even visible when I was typing.

It is not just Jeremy Corbyn and Labour though - we have no information at all from the Tories or Lib-dems,, regarding women's rights. Sod all from SNP or Plaid Cymru, either. Greens are a lost cause with their "non men" stance.

We need a Mumsnet gender-realist party.

I can make an effort to contribute and/or raise money, if serious.

Seriously.

I love to debate but this stuff doesn't interest me. 'You're a beaten dog' 'Jeremy is a disaster' 'How effin dare you'.

These are not arguments. Formulate an argument or sit tf down.

And FURTHERMORE I have nothing but contempt for right wingers from any party (especially those in Labour actually) who are happy to put their boots on the throats of the working class if it will help them cosy up to the business class. I'm glad to have you as enemies and I don't want your approval or your support.

To everyone else - solidarity. x

It's all the parties. The Tories proposed self-id in the first place. Lib Dems have supported it. SNP and independence supporters are currently battling over it. WEP refuse to define a woman. Greens are fully supportive of non-men.
I'm not sure about Plaid Cymru because I can't vote for them anyway.

Dismissing women is a mistake, JJ.
You have failed to make an persuasive argument to women who have declared that women's rights is the hill they are prepared to die on.
Instead you tell us if we do not submit to this abuse we do not care about women. You look a fool now to the people I am sure you thought you could persuade when you wrote the specious title to this post.

Me too, Darth.

I don't think she looks a fool. I think she has done more than most to stand against self-id and I am grateful that she has taken a public stance on this. She has proven how important this issue is to her time and again, and at great personal cost.

@KateAdiesEarrings - yes IF this was JJ...

I strongly suspect it's not.

To be fair I should have twigged at "Comrades"

Hey ho - some interesting debate though and definitely a strong "momentum" against the Corbyship

Wtaf have I just read?

Oh blimey, can't' believe I wrote "gender realist" a few posts back. I meant totally the opposite - sex is real, gender is not. Let this be a lesson about posting and failing to read and consider what you have just written! Sorry!

Women are women.
Men are not women,
That is all.

The fact you disagree with her about Corbyn doesn't mean it isn't Jennifer. In fact she just posted about MN on Twitter which I assume is in reference to this thread.

@LadyMcLadyCrisps

A pissing match with a schoolboy in all probability it is half term remember....

If this actually is JJ then I'm worried about her and am hoping friends/family are looking out for her. If I started talking like that I'd hope someone would check in and make sure I was doing OK.

The thing is, self-ID isn't purely a Labour party issue. This has an impact on every woman and girl, and it's really not just about do you/don't you support Corbyn or which party do you normally vote for. There are women at every point on the political spectrum who're worried about this.

Dont be so sure Darth...

@KateAdiesEarrings given I donated to her I'm damn well hoping it's not her tbh.

I'd expect a far more articulate, reasoned and rounded set of posts from someone I was hoping to present a coherent legal challenge (which I helped fund) than the crap I've seen on here.

It's 2am. Perhaps none of us are at our most coherent. Or it could be that, as a non-MNer, she misjudged the party politics on here and the strength of the arguments we've all already had over the years with WEP, Labour etc.
So many of us have been feeling disenfranchised for so long that we've all had to think about what party represents the lesser evil. That doesn't stop us seeing and discussing all their flaws.

Jesus Christ

What are the other parties' stance on self-ID? Too late this evening for me to go doing any more googling :-)

I think it is right that Labour is being criticised for throwing women under the bus, seeing as it is the Labour Party. But there seems to be no similar criticism of the Tories, or Lib-Dems, or SNP, or Plaid Cymru, or UKIP..... Why? As far as I can see, all of the political parties are complicit in women's oppression, because they don't argue or act against it.

Anyway, good night!