Was Greer Right When She Said Men Hate Women?

[LastGirlOnTheLeft]

I have just skim read The Female Eunuch and like everyone else, the stand out line to me was that men hate us but we aren't aware of the extent, and neither are they!!

Do you think this is true?? My DH, my late father and my brother, all immensely like/d and love/d the women in their lives. I hate to think it is true, but if it is, I want to know! I want to know my enemy.

Ray, I tend to agree with you that we would all be better to get our heads together and tackle the issues. It does seem to me that those in power have more to gain while we little cogs are busy squabbling amongst ourselves.

Because lettuce all men don’t have the power (which has been my point all along) a tiny minority of men have the power. The rest of us, men and women are just fighting for the scraps.

Re caring responsibilities, it would help enormously if ministers who think that society has got "too selfish" and should care more for the elderly within families would recognise that this responsibility overwhelmingly falls to women [DM link warning]

I think men and women are groomed to hate women from day 1. You only have to look at newspapers like the Mail, and the way they both fetishise women's bodies, and despise everything women do(complain about sexual assault, fail to be good enough wives or mothers, get older..)
Our whole media is seeped in disdain for women and girls.

And the myths are very pervasive. I have had men tell me that women don't want child support because it means they get less tax credits. That it's common for women to block men from having contact with their kids. That women cheat and lie, that they secretly hate each other (see! They cant even agree on a feminist forum!). Popular TV hosts like Matthew Wright are forever sneering and crowing about "the sisterhood" when women disagree.
Women are barely portrayed in most films, unless specifically "Women's films".
Films that we think of as neutral (not action movies)may actually have a cast of 8 men and 1 or 2 women. Men are over and over portrayed as the default humans.
Women are Lesser is woven into the fabric of our entire culture.
Men don't notice it, because it doesn't affect them adversely.
Women don't want to believe it, and look for exceptions to prove they are really valued. (Which they sometimes are by their own men).
It's easy to hate a class of people you have been subtly trained to despise by everything around you since childhood.

I agree that the Internet is showing just how deep this goes, and is probably perpetuating it.
God I have just depressed myself!

Going back to caring and nurturing.

I think the issue is Men as a class don't "care about caring". I dont think we ever will to same extent as women. I think men are generally more selfish.

When it comes to elderly relatives etc, women do take on a lot of those roles as they genuinely care.

They could stop, but men as a class wouldn't pick up the load.

Simply not true Ray, the patriarchy is a system where all men, regardless of class have power over women and children ...because you are male it will automatically be your right to shag as many women as you want, women don't get to do that without scorn or judgement. It will be assumed that you won't have to take time off your career if you become a parent, it will most likely be women who take on caring responsibilites generally. You most likely won't be accused of being hormonal or ditsy, so no Ray I don't accept you have no power because you absolutely do!

IfNot - I completely agree. And it is depressing.

Ray is providing a decent demonstration right here of how men just don't notice that women are "lesser" in society. Ray is trying to insist that there is a parity between women and most men who don't have power - and misses the point spectacularly.

The Labour Party is doing the same with it's brocialists - lefty men with no clue of the systemic disadvantage women face in society because they have never experienced it.

I see it more as men being scared of being treated like women are being treated ie glass ceiling, lower pay etc. Or that they are being called up on their treatment of women. Even otherwise completely nice men can still have very suppressive views for example that their job or career is more important than that of their wife. I do think it is getting better nowadays though but still so much to do.

Ifnot interesting and yes, a very depressing read.

Lettuce do you recognise your privilege at all?

Personally I am the one in the family who is the primary Carer, I left my job to support my wife firstly through berievment and then dropped down to part time to be the mostly stay at home parent whilst my wife continues her career.

I agree that assumptions are made of women just as assumptions are made of men. I could give you examples but I doubt you want to know.
Personally I don’t really take notice of assumptions and just try to do what’s right for my family.

Then you of course realise your personal situation does not reflect society at large? What privilege do you speak of?

Of course it doesn’t but it’s changing and I’d say it’s changing quite fast.

There are lots of privileges both men and women have. I am not about to list them here. Google it.

One i experience my job quite often is the assumption that because I’m Male then I’m automatically viewed as a threat to the degree that if I’m walking down a street at night and there is a lone female in front of me, I will cross over so she doesn’t feel threatened. So your privilege in this respect is not to be seen as a threat.

A decent man would cross over Ray, unfortunately you as a man ARE the risk, as documented by the disgusting sexual assault statistics. It's not a privilege by the way, it's a numbers game.

That's some twisted thinking you're showing there, Ray.

Terf how so?

Explain to me please my experiences and how I should interpretate them?

Lettuce what are the statistics for stranger sexual assault please per capita?

Well Ray, as you are probably quite aware the number is low, most physical assaults of women are conducted by people known to the victim. However, there are many cases other forms of harm, such as following, verbally harrassing, sexual comments, that happen to many women on a regular basis......but you already know all this don't you? You just don't want to address it because it pickles your brain and takes away the onus on the behaviour of men.....not YOU personally, but men as a class.

The twisted thinking is feeling that women are privileged for not being a threat. It's kinda like saying "lucky old zebra, not being seen as a threat. Us poor, poor lions."

It's not a woman's "privilege" not to have to cross the street in order not to be perceived as a threat to a stranger That is not what "privilege" means

Ok maybe a bad example.

Lettuce how many?

Have you got any statistics on this?

And do you as a woman living in the West honestly think that you have no privilege?

Did you try google, I could do it for you but I’d be slower.

Ps I can recognise that Just by the fact of being born in the West that I have absolutely won the lottery of life. Can you say the same lettuce, whether you are Male or female?

And what I said was women automatically have the privilege of not been seen as a criminal.

All lions are a threat to zebras, always, it’s a fact of life.

Things I’ve learned from this thread....If you refer to yourself by saying “I’m a radical feminist” you don’t care about anyone else’s opinion as long as you shout loudest; men today are to blame for all the bad things other men have done in the past; we want to destroy the patriarchy but actually let’s keep it cos its good excuse for everything that’s is bad; men are inherently evil; lettucepray would be terrible company for a night out

overnightangel

Um, so pointing out facts....i.e that men are responsible for the vast amounts of violent crime, sexual assault etc. I definitely don't want to keep the patriarchy thanks but no thanks. But yeah, think what you will and bash radical feminists because we are clearly the problem..........🤔

So Ray, because we are born in the West we are privileged, we have no real issues to contend with and women walking down the street need to check their privilege and stop being afraid of men?? Does that sum up your argument against feminism??

No it doesn’t sum it up at all, that’s just you putting your own bias on what I said.
Of course you are privileged for being born in the West. Would you rather have been born in A third world country?

And of course we have issues, we always will because that’s life. But by demonising half the population as per this thread do you think that helps your cause?

There was poll recently mentioned on here. 15% support feminism whilst 85% support equal rights. What do you think the poll suggests lettuce?