Ladyboys ? where do they fit in?

[Quickchange1]

I know this is trivial and probably offensive to lots of people but... pondering whether ladyboys are transsexuals or transgender or what? fetishists? ... I only ask as I have seen the 'Ladyboys of Bankok' advertised as performing at a local theatre. Where the he'll do they fit in?

You should probably ask where the rest of them fit in with Ladyboys who have been around for donkeys years & have no agenda....

I saw a lady boy act in Asia. Personally, I would say Ladyboys are probably almost always transsexual and attracted to males (hsts). In their culture being an effeminate gay male, like in our culture, is perhaps frowned on. But being a lady boy may be somewhat celebrated.

Thank you. Makes sense I guess.

where the hell do they fit in

Ladyboy is the rough translation of the Thai word kathoey.
Kathoey are usually transgender and are accepted in Thai society where they are considerd to belong to a third gender. So in answer to your question, they fit in very well.
The term ladyboy was made popular by the tv programme.
Many kathoey gravitate to the entertainment industry and are famous not only in Thailand but South East Asia.
This is not new, ladyboy cabarets have been around for over forty years in its modern form.
The Ladyboys of Bangkok is a worldwide touring cabaret show that has been going for twenty years.
Perhaps OP you now have a better understanding.

What do the Trans activists make of them though, seeing as "drag" has been banned by TRAs for being offensive to transgenders... The Ladyboys don't see themselves the same as women they seem perfectly comfortable fitting into a third gender. Isn't this terribly transphobic? Are they being threatened, banned and no-platformed for seeing themselves different to women?
If a feminist has those views she is vilified.

A third gender option is a perfect solution but the TRAs won't have that.

Yes poshindevon that is clear. It also seems to make sense that they are accepted as a third gender. I was pondering what patodp stated. How do TRAs view them and their refusal to accept a third gender of safe spaces for a 3rd gender. If it. works in Thailand and other parts of SE Asia it could work in the West.

Ladyboys I think are a reaction to rigid gender roles in some societies (SE Asia, India, Iran, S America), so you get effeminate male homosexuals acting out a 'third sex', which is a subset of men really.

They number millions in their countries, but in different contexts would desist and become male homosexuals - a large % probably do not have dysphoria but are really more fitting into a role.

Normal people in ladyboy countries are generally accepting and they may work in women-facing jobs in makeup shops, salons, shoes, and other jobs which you might often see effeminate male homosexuals performing in the West.

There really is no connection with the modern Western 'lesbian'/autogynephile transwoman.

The trans lobby in the West will appropriate them as far as it suits (to claim persecution, generally).

I don't think it can work in the West, as the ladyboy culture is an outcome of huge numbers of homosexual men being sent down a 'you are not a man' pathway.

Clearly this would not be a positive outcome in Europe - we have a much smaller number of trans-identified men, of which large numbers are sexual fetishists, instead of a much higher number, of which nearly all are male homosexuals.

That makes even more sense regarding the rigid gender roles. Ladybugs were born out of a reaction to social construct. TIM'S/TRAs and self id are completely different. Are TRAs effeminate or a masculine version of a woman. I know this is asking for sweeping statements but Lily Madigan, Danielle Muscado and Paris Lee's all 'present' so differently.

muscato

I agree it couldn't work here. Ladyboys exist as a third sex or quasi-women in these societies so that men can have sex with them and still regard themselves as heterosexual. (The vast bounty from Western men as sex tourists also helps.)

I don't think the Western sex tourists are particularly relevant, as ladyboys are prominent in cultures without Western sex tourists, it's more that the Thai ones have become particularly well known through tourism. It really is just a case of homosexual men being forced into a limited gender role.

Third gender roles like that always pop up in extremely sexist cultures where there's a lot of homophobia. But sure, encouraging feminine, probably gay boys to transition is super progressive.

Are the British sex tourists who go there themselves also hiding gay leanings (like the local men) or do they see ladyboys/kathoe as 'women'?

Closet gays probably who don't give it too much thought but their dick likes it so they do it.
Actually it's very sad that some blokes will think it's a real lady, then violently attack the Ladyboy when they realise. Actually I suspect deep down the bloke knows it from the start but just fancied beating someone up once he's got them alone. (Sorry bit dark)..
I studied in Thailand for a year and was told by a tutor that it's very much an unspoken problem.

Does it cross into fetishism/Autogynephilia. Supposed hetero men are actually turned on by the breasts and feminine features but like the male bits too. Or have all ladyboys had downstairs surgery.

nearly all have penises.

I did a quick twitter search for 'waria', they are advertising 'top' and 'bottom' I didn't get the impression there is any market at all for penisless ladyboys.

I mean fundamentally obviously if you have dysphoria then you might want to chop your dick off, but for sex workers then clearly the dick + tits combo is what sells. I mean if you want tits + vagina, then there's plenty of female sex workers, so....

The TRAs I know of get really offended by ladyboy shows.

Someone I know stayed in a hotel with the Ladyboys of Bangkok. Some are transsexuals who've had surgery, some still have penises but are "ladyboys" full-time, and a few only drag up fully for performances.

@Quickchange1 I don't think it has anything to do with AGP.

@pisacake they are not necessarily involved in prostitution.